College Budget Concerns With Ncata/stunt?

[Num1Stunta]

I have been given a unique opportunity to basically start a college cheer program from scratch. I have been reading extensively about the differences between NCATA and STUNT, and I need to lay out a budget proposal this week when I meet with the administration. At this point, I think STUNT is going to be the best fit for the school, and I also think it would cost less to run a STUNT program vs an NCATA program. Can anyone shed a light on this for me? If you have a sample budget that you would be willing to share via email, that would be AWESOME

I am drawing up a 3 year budget for them, starting with year 1 just being a traditional cheer team that supports athletic events and attends small local comps. That budget will be a piece of cake. But, I'm having trouble deciding what direction I want to go in after that-

1. "competitive cheer" which would be cheering at games and taking the Cheersport and NCA route, which I already have a budget for because I started a D2 program with it back in 2004.

2. Two teams- a STUNT team and a spirit team. STUNT team competes regionally, at Cheersport, and at NCA also.

3. Two teams- an NCATA team and a spirit team. NCATA would require a lot of traveling for meets, which would cost money.

So, any coaches out there want to weigh in on this?

 

[MissBee]

I've looked into this as well, but things didn't pan out for the university (they ended up not adding the spirit program at all). A lot of it depends on your location. NCATA was going to be much more expensive due to our location. However, STUNT was also going to be pretty expensive as well. I wrote up anticipated budgets for both of those options, as well as going the "a few locals and then UCA" route. Going local/UCA was definitely less expensive for us. We have several large "national" all star competitions in our area (or within a 2 hours drive) that we could take advantage of. For this situation, the university felt that adding a coach and changing the direction of the "spirit leaders" wasn't what they wanted to do. (They currently have a group of girls, no coach. They do cheers and dancing, but no tumbling or stunting. The University claimed the interest wasn't there, but the girls had signed a petition to become a more traditional cheer program. They got athletes to sign off, professors, girls who said they were experienced and would try out....but I think the bottom line was budget.)

 

[worldsring09]

I am just a mom here, but I have a high school senior dying for more STUNT and NCA-style college programs to choose from...she's a female base on a level 5 team, and would love to continue doing what she loves most in life for her school as a ATHLETE COMPETITOR.

This is probably not the type of response you are seeking, but I thought I would throw it out there that we are looking for programs and not finding many to choose from, and I am not sure how many people are in the same position. She looked at the NCATA format and we even watched a meet (Maryland), and she felt that the meet circuit was not the style she is seeking, she wants something more similar to and what she has been already doing...and as far as the spirit gear programs...she would really prefer for people to cheer for her, not for her to cheer for other people...sigh... I don't know if I can afford to pay for college and for her to super senior or cheer on an open team. As a parent trying to help, it is very confusing trying to wade through all of the different college styles/program types!!!!!

I hope your opportunity works out for you

 

[Mightymouse34]

I am just a mom here, but I have a high school senior dying for more STUNT and NCA-style college programs to choose from...she's a female base on a level 5 team, and would love to continue doing what she loves most in life for her school as a ATHLETE COMPETITOR.

This is probably not the type of response you are seeking, but I thought I would throw it out there that we are looking for programs and not finding many to choose from, and I am not sure how many people are in the same position. She looked at the NCATA format and we even watched a meet (Maryland), and she felt that the meet circuit was not the style she is seeking, she wants something more similar to and what she has been already doing...and as far as the spirit gear programs...she would really prefer for people to cheer for her, not for her to cheer for other people...sigh... I don't know if I can afford to pay for college and for her to super senior or cheer on an open team. As a parent trying to help, it is very confusing trying to wade through all of the different college styles/program types!!!!!

I hope your opportunity works out for you

What cheer programs is she looking at?

 

[SharkDad]

There are obviously major things to consider for traditional vs STUNT vs NCATA. Keep in mind that the NCAA statement regarding the STUNT and NCATA applications for emerging sport status alludes to being prepared to consider full sport status if some conditions are met.

One critical difference is that NCATA is currently in the format to comply with Title IX. That may be something that can be sold to the University Administration and maybe even gain more budget leverage.

STUNT is flexible in that it allows for the team to cheer sideline and compete. It's already been pointed out that these costs are comparable.

A "traditional" cheer team like most club teams now is probably the cheapest option (I don't have any data for this, just using what you have said), but consider that may all change if NCAA finally awards emerging sport status to a competitive cheer format.

That's from what I know. PM me if you want me to try and put you in touch with coaches I know who are involved in either STUNT or NCATA.

 

[worldsring09]

What cheer programs is she looking at?

As you make your decision for style of college program (STUNT vs NCATA or traditional spirit UCA or NCA), maybe a parents perspective will help schools and coaches who are selecting programs understand how we are having a hard time locate the "right fit". I have spoken to parents of high school age allstars at several small and big name programs in the area who have athletes who would looove to compete for a college, and they all feel confused too. They do NOT want to participate in a CLUB SPORT, they want to be VARSITY ATHLETES.

I have read the arguments on the board to not select a college just for cheer. And I totally get that....however, when you are weighing factors about your future, my daughter feels like continuing in a sport she loves is important to her and she would like to do this in conjunction with pursuing her major. She has an idea of the type of schools she will like, and cheerleading would definitely factor into her end decision. However, due to the evolving nature of college cheer right now, it is like trying to solve a giant puzzle to figure out "who is doing what". And while she loves programs like Gym Tyme, I have serious concerns regarding selecting a college because it is near your favorite post- high school grad allstar program. And how I would pay for this.

We took her to the College Cheer Guide Get Recruited Event in Dallas, and found this to be very helpful for information regarding the programs that were able to attend (the majority of schools in attendance were schools out were out West). Several college coaches have contacted us, many hoping she will attend their "recruit days", for which we are very appreciative, however, the programs which have contacted her thus far are mostly west of the Mississippi (I am not making this up, she made this as her comfort zone boundary to be away from us...which I find amusing, since we are "annoying parents"). I am hesitant to incur the costs to fly her out for the recruit days, if she will end up sticking to her "east of the Mississippi guns".

We have also filled out a profile with The Cheerleading Agency.

Will this information provide any assistance for the topic of making a decision regarding which program to choose and the budget necessary? I do not know, probably not. All I know is that we do not intend to be disrespectful to the history of traditional sideline cheer. However, this is NOT what she does....Based on the current available options, our vote would be STUNT, NCA and Cheersport.

 

[wcdad]

you should contact Misty at the UofL if you are looking for information abouy STUNT and it's cost from a coach stand point. I am sure she would be happy to answer any of your questions regarding STUNT.

 

[Emily Jane]

She looked at the NCATA format and we even watched a meet (Maryland), and she felt that the meet circuit was not the style she is seeking, she wants something more similar to and what she has been already doing...and as far as the spirit gear programs...she would really prefer for people to cheer for her, not for her to cheer for other people

As you make your decision for style of college program (STUNT vs NCATA or traditional spirit UCA or NCA), maybe a parents perspective will help schools and coaches who are selecting programs understand how we are having a hard time locate the "right fit". I have spoken to parents of high school age allstars at several small and big name programs in the area who have athletes who would looove to compete for a college, and they all feel confused too. They do NOT want to participate in a CLUB SPORT, they want to be VARSITY ATHLETES.

However, this is NOT what she does....Based on the current available options, our vote would be STUNT, NCA and Cheersport.

I am in no way trying to attack you or your daughter but I think your daughter is in a bit of a predicament; she wants to be treated like an athlete who only competes (best option would be NCATA) but doesn't like their style of competitions/meets, and she wants to compete NCA/STUNT but doesn't want to cheer sidelines which I think almost all of those organisations teams do. I think she needs to decide what is most important to her in regards to a cheer program; being a student athlete who only competes at NCATA despite it being all meets, or competing at NCA/STUNT but being a club sport participant and sideline cheerleader. I apologise if I have misread your previous posts and my post doesn't make much sense to you, I was just trying to highlight that NCA programs that don't cheer sidelines are uncommon and she may need to work out what her priorities are regarding a program.

 

[worldsring09]

I am in no way trying to attack you or your daughter but I think your daughter is in a bit of a predicament; she wants to be treated like an athlete who only competes (best option would be NCATA) but doesn't like their style of competitions/meets, and she wants to compete NCA/STUNT but doesn't want to cheer sidelines which I think almost all of those organisations teams do. I think she needs to decide what is most important to her in regards to a cheer program; being a student athlete who only competes at NCATA despite it being all meets, or competing at NCA/STUNT but being a club sport participant and sideline cheerleader. I apologise if I have misread your previous posts and my post doesn't make much sense to you, I was just trying to highlight that NCA programs that don't cheer sidelines are uncommon and she may need to work out what her priorities are regarding a program.

You are exactly right. She wants to be treated as a varsity athlete in NCA/STUNT with limited sideline (she would prefer school appearances promoting the STUNT team and promotional type things supporting the athletic department). She thinks the NCATA meet style is turning competitive cheer more into acro and gymnastics, and (personally) did not care for it. I am not sure if it will "grow" on her. The state of WV does not allow you to do both allstar and school, and she is not a school cheerleader, she is an allstar. She would like what she does to be considered a sport with people at the event to cheer for her hard work and respect her abilities as a competitive cheer base, not to look at her as if she should weigh 100 lbs with male cheerleaders lifting her, and not for her to be treated as a "side event" to the main event.

I am not at all meaning to come across as disrespectful and I hope I have not (and I did not mean to hijack your thread Num1Stunta LOL), I totally hear what you are saying about her needing to choose from the current options available and not as she would like for them to be....hopefully options will be increasingly better for female competitors in the future

I just would love for more Coaches, athletic departments, and the cheer world in general to hear from those of us who feel this way!!!!

 

[MissBee]

It sounds like she wants to have her cake and eat it too. This is a transitional time for collegiate cheerleading, so what your daughter is looking for simply isn't available. She can't be considered a Varsity Athlete with all the perks while doing cheer (currently). Even schools with STUNT/NCATA, they are not considered Varsity Athletes in the same way that gymnastics or tennis or volleyball are. These teams are much more on a club level with a few of the Athletic Department perks that are offered to other teams. When you look at the number of schools offering NCATA and STUNT and then compare that to the number of schools with traditional cheer teams, it's a tiny amount. I don't know your daughter, and she may very well have the skills to make one of those teams. If she does, she needs to understand that she won't be walking around campus getting "respect" like most varsity athletes.....in fact, the traditional sideline cheerleaders will get more recognition on campus than she will (at least for the next few years while NCATA/STUNT is still in its formative years).

 

[coachrah]

It sounds like she wants to have her cake and eat it too. This is a transitional time for collegiate cheerleading, so what your daughter is looking for simply isn't available. She can't be considered a Varsity Athlete with all the perks while doing cheer (currently). Even schools with STUNT/NCATA, they are not considered Varsity Athletes in the same way that gymnastics or tennis or volleyball are. These teams are much more on a club level with a few of the Athletic Department perks that are offered to other teams. When you look at the number of schools offering NCATA and STUNT and then compare that to the number of schools with traditional cheer teams, it's a tiny amount. I don't know your daughter, and she may very well have the skills to make one of those teams. If she does, she needs to understand that she won't be walking around campus getting "respect" like most varsity athletes.....in fact, the traditional sideline cheerleaders will get more recognition on campus than she will (at least for the next few years while NCATA/STUNT is still in its formative years).

NCATA teams are not administered on a club level but on a Varsity level. Simply stated, they receive ALL (not a few) of the same benefits of ALL the other sport teams supported by their respective athletic departments. I agree that traditional sideline teams will continue to receive recognition on campus. However, it seems like worldring09 is hoping for sport designation and the benefits provided when supported as a sport. You are right...she can't have both but at least she now has choices.

I am curious, as to what survey has been taken that NCATA and/or STUNT athletes aren't getting "respect" like most varsity athletes? In fact, I think the ultimate respect is now being offered by Athletic Departments and University Presidents who are applying due diligence (scholarships, academic support, trainers, paid travel, meal stipends, strength and conditioning coaches, nutritionists, sports information staff, laundry services, practice gear, facilities and an operating budget). Football and Basketball as high profile revenue generating sports might get more "recognition" but if I am a golfer, bowler, or rower and I receive the same "respect" offered to support my student-athlete endeavors...I don't need the popularity barometer...I have all the "respect"I need from my teammates, coaches, administrators and family who dedicate their time to my athletic and academic pursuits.

 

[cheerheart4life]

I hate cheering sidelines for high school.. But I want to cheer in college. Any programs allow just competition? Or am I stuck with both?

 

[Mightymouse34]

I hate cheering sidelines for high school.. But I want to cheer in college. Any programs allow just competition? Or am I stuck with both?

As far as I know your stuck with both. There isn't a top program at any level that doesn't have to cheer at games. Even junior college teams cheer at football and basketball games, so I'm assuming its an across the board kind of thing, and ur stuck with both. But i cheerd in high school and did all-stars, didn't really like cheering high school games, but i love cheering in college. Its just a whole different atmosphere.

 

[cheerheart4life]

As far as I know your stuck with both. There isn't a top program at any level that doesn't have to cheer at games. Even junior college teams cheer at football and basketball games, so I'm assuming its an across the board kind of thing, and ur stuck with both. But i cheerd in high school and did all-stars, didn't really like cheering high school games, but i love cheering in college. Its just a whole different atmosphere.

Well thats good to hear! I plan to cheer in college even if I hate games. The competitive aspect is definetly worth it! It will be interesting to see what colleges as STUNT in the next few years too

 

[worldsring09]

It sounds like she wants to have her cake and eat it too. This is a transitional time for collegiate cheerleading, so what your daughter is looking for simply isn't available. She can't be considered a Varsity Athlete with all the perks while doing cheer (currently). Even schools with STUNT/NCATA, they are not considered Varsity Athletes in the same way that gymnastics or tennis or volleyball are. These teams are much more on a club level with a few of the Athletic Department perks that are offered to other teams. When you look at the number of schools offering NCATA and STUNT and then compare that to the number of schools with traditional cheer teams, it's a tiny amount. I don't know your daughter, and she may very well have the skills to make one of those teams. If she does, she needs to understand that she won't be walking around campus getting "respect" like most varsity athletes.....in fact, the traditional sideline cheerleaders will get more recognition on campus than she will (at least for the next few years while NCATA/STUNT is still in its formative years).

Yes, I agree, a very transitional time and I hear everyone about her need for acceptance of the current status of college cheer. While I also agree with much of what you have to say, I am going to be honest in saying the "eat her cake and eat it too" statement makes me feel sad.

She has worked very, very hard and she is not looking for any sort of a hand out...nor is she looking for the best of both worlds, she does not know these college cheer "worlds"....nor does she know sideline cheer. All she know is that she has busted her bleep for years, working harder than many, many male and female athletes she knows in other sports; through injuries...concussions, black eyes, a cracked bone in her face, back pain, broken bones in her foot, a stress fracture, a high ankle sprain, etc....tears, weight struggles, bazillions of hours in the car to gyms hours and hours away, and some of the most awesomely amazing victories. Yet one of the most painful things is that she has ridiculed throughout the years by her schoolmates for her "sport" with little - no respect. She is HUGELY discouraged that she is not considered a "real" athlete. We are proud that she meets the criteria (other than non-fully-disclosed weight requirements) including tumbling we have seen for many, many colleges....and also, for numerous schools, but if she were a flyer. And we are not bagging on flyers, she loves her flyers, and she would not be an awesome base without an awesome flyer/s.

My point was to provide my child (and my perspective as a parent) as examples to a Coach (remember Num1Stunta who started this thread omg sorry) trying to select a path for their program and for us to honestly share her/our thought process, which we know she shares with many others. She is 17, and she "sorta" understands the political bs, but she doesn't have a larger perspective yet (uh, that is what I am planning to pay a college for). And tbh, she doesn't want to hear the drama...she is simply like wow mom why is this soooo messed up???!!! So....everyone can judge her for her opinion, she is not by any stretch of the imagination the only soon-to-be-graduating allstar athlete (or parent) who has the same feelings, or the same quandry. We may be the only ones dumb enough to try to vocalize the feelings LOL. Not gonna lie, I am exhausted of college cheer research and may have suffered some long term googling carpal tunnel.

Additionally, my daughter has said many things over the years like, I do not know why they put megaphones on cheer stuff they sell at allstar comps because we have never ever used those things, those giant cards with letters might poke someone's eye out but I cannot wear my earrings, mom have you noticed all the allstar parents who get irritated by the high school cheer part of the comp....and a cheer? You hafta chant something?? And who are we chanting about, are we cheering about us or are we cheering for someone else not involved with what we are doing in our routine?? And lastly, the one I find very funny, mom why are they using pom poms then tossing them out of the way off the mat? Aren't they just in the way the whole time???!!!

Recognition, in the sense of notoriety or famousity, is not the same thing as respect. My cheerleader prefers respect as an athlete. And her mom perfers a scholarship