All-Star Changing Levels Towards The End Of A Season.

[NHcheermom]

Not starting this thread with the intention of being judgy but am generally curious about peoples opinions on this. I was bored one day at work and started watching videos on Varsity TV of teams with summit bids. I noticed one team with a lvl3 bid had been competing as a lvl4 until recently. Is this something that happens often? Do you feel it gives the team an unfair advantage? When is it a good idea to change levels? Would this be considered sandbagging? I'm really curious to how people feel about this

 

[Lisa Seye]

It's possible they were a little ambitious when calling the team level 4 at the beginning of the season. There is level 4 and there is elite level 4. Perhaps they realized their level 4 skills were basic and not very competitive so they decided to drop down to level 3 where they could be elite and the kids wouldn't feel like they were awful as a team. It really hurts the kids morale to compete as a level they are not ready for.

 

[NHcheermom]

It's possible they were a little ambitious when calling the team level 4 at the beginning of the season. There is level 4 and there is elite level 4. Perhaps they realized their level 4 skills were basic and not very competitive so they decided to drop down to level 3 where they could be elite and the kids wouldn't feel like they were awful as a team. It really hurts the kids morale to compete as a level they are not ready for.

Those are all very good points.....I guess I wonder also is how long should you push for a level if its clear its not working? I hadn't really ever thought about this happening before so when I saw the video it made me wonder if this was pretty common. Also do you have to fill out any kind of paperwork to change level or does it even matter?

 

[luv2cheer92]

Those are all very good points.....I guess I wonder also is how long should you push for a level if its clear its not working? I hadn't really ever thought about this happening before so when I saw the video it made me wonder if this was pretty common. Also do you have to fill out any kind of paperwork to change level or does it even matter?

No paperwork needed. The one exception to dropping levels is at NCA Nationals. You have to have competed in the level you choose to compete in at NCA at least once prior to it. You can't drop down just for NCA.

 

[mamabear]

They might have had injuries with their advanced athletes too


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[Cheerfun2]

No paperwork needed. The one exception to dropping levels is at NCA Nationals. You have to have competed in the level you choose to compete in at NCA at least once prior to it. You can't drop down just for NCA.

This is yet another reason why I love NCA. We compete against a gym that FREQUENTLY does this...not only do they drop levels, they will check to see which divisions have less competition at a certain level & will switch from coed to non coed, large to small, just to increase their chances of winning. They move kids from team to team like mercenaries, remove kids, add other kids...To me, it’s freaking nuts, but whatever. It’s not my circus, not my clowns. It is refreshing that NCA is one comp that restricts their shenanigans, though.

 

[SthrnCheerMom]

They might have had injuries with their advanced athletes too


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This happened this year at our former gym. Their R5 had too many injuries and they couldn't put the required skills on the mat. So they dropped to S4 (coed I think).

 

[cheermomforever]

This is yet another reason why I love NCA. We compete against a gym that FREQUENTLY does this...not only do they drop levels, they will check to see which divisions have less competition at a certain level & will switch from coed to non coed, large to small, just to increase their chances of winning. They move kids from team to team like mercenaries, remove kids, add other kids...To me, it’s freaking nuts, but whatever. It’s not my circus, not my clowns. It is refreshing that NCA is one comp that contains their shenanigans, though.

Yep one gym will add a boy to be coed if they choose to depending on the competition.

 

[NHcheermom]

This is yet another reason why I love NCA. We compete against a gym that FREQUENTLY does this...not only do they drop levels, they will check to see which divisions have less competition at a certain level & will switch from coed to non coed, large to small, just to increase their chances of winning. They move kids from team to team like mercenaries, remove kids, add other kids...To me, it’s freaking nuts, but whatever. It’s not my circus, not my clowns. It is refreshing that NCA is one comp that restricts their shenanigans, though.

See this is what I was curious about.....I completely understand having to switch levels due to injuries and honestly maybe even being a little overenthusiastic on having a higher level team that the athletes weren't 100% ready for.....but how many times is it because they just want to win?

 

[alpaca]

See this is what I was curious about.....I completely understand having to switch levels due to injuries and honestly maybe even being a little overenthusiastic on having a higher level team that the athletes weren't 100% ready for.....but how many times is it because they just want to win?

I have heard a gym owner say 'I want a jacket and I don't care how I get it'. So while some teams change levels due to injuries, wrong level to begin with, there are other teams that are clearly doing it just for the win.

 

[catlady]

See this is what I was curious about.....I completely understand having to switch levels due to injuries and honestly maybe even being a little overenthusiastic on having a higher level team that the athletes weren't 100% ready for.....but how many times is it because they just want to win?

I have found those at gyms that switch divisions, switch athletes, hold Summit tryouts, etc are generally very supportive of the practice and feel it is smart coaching. The flip side is, those gyms tend to develop a reputation and a population that isn't as impressed with their titles as they are. With that said, if you were to compare Summit 2013 winners to Summit 2017 winners, you would see a huge transformation that has happened in a relatively short amount of time. Anymore, if a gym puts together a team of athletes that don't meet all, or close to all of the higher skills within that level, that team is going to struggle. For that reason I don't get upset when a team drops a level during the season now compared to a few years ago. As far as those that regularly switch divisions depending on who they go up against, everyone knows who they are in those divisions and they don't seem to be embarrassed by blatantly wanting the win versus the competition.

 

[FamUsM0m]

Not starting this thread with the intention of being judgy but am generally curious about peoples opinions on this. I was bored one day at work and started watching videos on Varsity TV of teams with summit bids. I noticed one team with a lvl3 bid had been competing as a lvl4 until recently. Is this something that happens often? Do you feel it gives the team an unfair advantage? When is it a good idea to change levels? Would this be considered sandbagging? I'm really curious to how people feel about this

I believe there was a team we competed against at Battle at the capitol that dropped from level 3 to 2. But honestly, I believe it was for the same reason someone else said. They were optimistic about level 3 but were more solid and competitive at a 2. They were very good but they were very good as a level 2. I haven't seen them perform at 3 so not 100%. i don't see anything wrong with that. What i have an issue with is gyms that take a world's team that couldn't get a world's bid and drop them to a level 3 to get a summit bid when there are other legit level 3 teams very competitive who get passed over for that world's team.

 

[cheermomforever]

I believe there was a team we competed against at Battle at the capitol that dropped from level 3 to 2. But honestly, I believe it was for the same reason someone else said. They were optimistic about level 3 but were more solid and competitive at a 2. They were very good but they were very good as a level 2. I haven't seen them perform at 3 so not 100%. i don't see anything wrong with that. What i have an issue with is gyms that take a world's team that couldn't get a world's bid and drop them to a level 3 to get a summit bid when there are other legit level 3 teams very competitive who get passed over for that world's team.

Or gyms that have too many Worlds and regular crossovers, all season, and then have multiple team tryouts in March every year !

 

[Nikki Moore]

A few years ago we had a Level 3 that was struggling to even do a full-out before their first comp. They competed a few times at Level 3 but dropped to Level 2 sometime after Cheersport. They did better after that - I think the highest they got after dropping was 2nd place. Definitely better for morale at least

 

[Pebbles49]

Jumping in the middle of great convo, I recalled being at a gym that was known for only bringing level 4/5 teams to NCA and that 1 year this gym was forced to lower the level 4 team to level 3... I noticed that the young athletes were so demoralized and actually this move was worse for this team and when watching these athletes the fire in their eyes and swagger in their steps were gone... They lost and lost badly too!
Tbh,
I really think for the athletes' sake switching levels early in the season or better yet, before competition season start is best. Experience Coaches should be able to determine how competitive their team will be in a level before Oct/Nov isn't that their job to know... js

Imo, the true competitive athletes want to win fairly, against other athletes/teams with similar skills!