All-Star Foreign Teams At Nationals

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May 9, 2010
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I was reading a thread about a Canadian team at NCA nationals and a thought occurred to me. Are there any other sports that allow teams from outside the country to compete at nationals? I have never heard of another sport doing this but maybe I'm out of the loop. Does anyone else feel like this could potentially hurt our credibility as a sport or am I just overreacting?
Someone who doesn't know cheer would laugh at the amount of "national competitions" we have. I mean, some gyms have hundreds of national titles. To me it seems like throwing international teams in there could make national competitions seem even less legit.
I understand that for some international teams, it's difficult to find real competition in their country and they just want to go against the best. But isn't that what worlds is for? IMO, nationals should stay between gyms from the nation the competition is held in. Thoughts?

P.S. Please don't think I'm hating on international teams. I love watching them and want them to be successful. I just wanted to start a discussion.
 
im split, having competed in both canada and america as well as been a part of gyms in both countries i see the positives and negatives of both, having one nationals per country as well as one where teams from all over can verse each other (Worlds/ICU) would be the good way for the sport to go, but for many teams there simply is not enough teams to really support a strong national championship i think that teams competing in other countries even states grants athletes with seeing different progressions, ideas and styles

just a bit of a ramble but its a start for conversation :)
 
I think until we're set up like other sports with full governing bodies etc, Nationals will never be just that. The fact that we can all just register for a national and have no qualifying thru the regional, state/provincial level, discredits the idea a bit.

I think allowing international teams to come in is great in a few ways. You expose these international teams to a level of cheerleading that they won't see at home that will likely give them the drive to reach levels they didn't know about before. I think it also allows for a variety of styles. I think theres some difference between US, Canadian, European and Aussie/NZ routine etc that's pretty refreshing. Look at Bangkok's routines. They're totally different than what we usually see, but they're so stunning in their own way.

I wonder if US cheerleaders sometimes take for granted the easy access they have to viewing or competing at big competitions with the big name gyms. Personally, I'd almost kill a man to attend BUTBT or CheerSport, I'd sit there all day in awe, we just don't have the access to competitions of that caliber at home!
 
I think until we're set up like other sports with full governing bodies etc, Nationals will never be just that. The fact that we can all just register for a national and have no qualifying thru the regional, state/provincial level, discredits the idea a bit.

I think allowing international teams to come in is great in a few ways. You expose these international teams to a level of cheerleading that they won't see at home that will likely give them the drive to reach levels they didn't know about before. I think it also allows for a variety of styles. I think theres some difference between US, Canadian, European and Aussie/NZ routine etc that's pretty refreshing. Look at Bangkok's routines. They're totally different than what we usually see, but they're so stunning in their own way.

I wonder if US cheerleaders sometimes take for granted the easy access they have to viewing or competing at big competitions with the big name gyms. Personally, I'd almost kill a man to attend BUTBT or CheerSport, I'd sit there all day in awe, we just don't have the access to competitions of that caliber at home!
i will say though cheer evolutions competition schedule is set up the way most people would like to see it eventually except for qualifying for nationals (granted its canada and we do not have NEAR as many teams or event producers) if cheer evolution was to stay the sole and single event producer in canada it would evolve extremely quickly into having one body to control nationals

...if all that ramble makes sense
 
"I understand that for some international teams, it's difficult to find real competition in their country and they just want to go against the best. But isn't that what worlds is for? IMO, nationals should stay between gyms from the nation the competition is held in. Thoughts?"

I agree with the issue raised, however, I think it brings up some cloudy areas in divisions. At national events, there are 'international' teams such as international open coed. When US teams are competing in the USA, I believe it contradicts the idea that it is a national competition. I believe that it would be fine for an international team from say Canada to compete in this division, as they are entering a division which clearly states what they are. I do, however, agree that having international teams in a national small senior division perhaps doesn't make sense!

In response to the " But isn't that what worlds is for?" comment, I disagree with completely. Being that I live in the UK, there are a lack of national competitions to begin with! (maybe 4/5?) Putting aside the fact that the lack of nationals only gives out usually 1 partial paid bid and 2 at large bids. This alone probably allows about 10 teams in total from the UK to compete in dance or cheer at worlds which narrows the opportunities dramatically. Only level 5 teams can go to worlds so are you saying that if there were a level 3 team who had won continuously in the UK, they shouldn't broaden their horizons by going to a competition in the USA to compete against teams there who were pushing the boundaries more at level 3? Their only opportunities to compete over there would be to compete at a national competition. If international teams were unable to compete at a national competition at all, then cheerleading could only grow to a certain point in countries such as the UK.

I think that it is great that teams can compete in other countries as it opens up cheerleading to a range of people across the world. Other sports such as 'rugby league' over here is limited as it is not so popular in other countries! I believe that it can only help the sport grow.

Hope this makes sense!
 
I don't think it happens often, but wasn't the US gymnastics team invited to Chinese Nationals? or Japanese?
 
I understand the viewpoint that a "national" championship should be of teams from only that nation, but I don't think that right now in cheer we can have that. For example, here in Canada, the level 5 competition is pretty.. small. It's getting bigger, but I can only think of maybe... 3-5 IOAG teams in Ontario. If all they did was compete in Canada, they'd be going against the same teams over and over, with the same result (most of the time). It would get old quite quickly. In travelling to big American competitions,not only do you get to see how your routine fares against the routines you'll be going against come Worlds, but you also get to show people that you shouldn't be underestimated, and maybe scare them a bit! I know that isn't usually the reason you want to go, I'm guessing most coaches just want to expose their team to a truly large competition, with a huge crowd, more pressure, and fierce competition, and I see nothing wrong with that either.
 
I think this is a hard question to answer, as US cheerleading doesn't have a national governing body - instead there are a lot of companies (Varsity, Jams, CheerSport, etc.) that have a large threshold in the market of cheerleading.

In Germany, for example, there are 2 national governing bodies - Cheerleading and Cheer Dance Verband (CCVD) and the Cheerleading Vereinigung Deutschland (CVD). CVD isn't an official body; in actuality CVD is a part of the American Football Verband Deutschlands (AFVD). CCVD is a member of the ECU and, therefore, also the ICU. CVD/AFVD is a member of ECA/ICA.

In both associations, there is a solid and defined national structure for competitions:

In CVD, each state (Bundesland) has a State Championship (Landesmeisterschaft [LM]). The scores from all State Championships are put into a ranking and, depending on category, the Top 5 or Top 10 qualify for Nationals (Deutsche Meisterschaft). The winner of the Nationals is then qualified for the Europeans. The winner of Senior Allgirl is also qualifies to be "Team Germany" at the CWC, which takes place every 2 years. A representative team (you have to tryout for it) is put together for the Senior Coed category for the CWC.

In CCVD, each region (north, south, east and west) has a Regional Championship. All scores are also put into a national ranking and the Top X teams qualify for the Nationals. The winner of Senior Allgirl at the Nationals qualifies to be "Team Germany" at the ICU Worlds. CCVD also has a representative team for Senior Coed.

So, sorry for the brief history lesson.. :D Since this structure is missing in the US - I think it would be hard to say that only US teams are eligible to take part in Nationals... Since there aren't any qualifying competitions for Nationals.
 
In response to the " But isn't that what worlds is for?" comment, I disagree with completely. Being that I live in the UK, there are a lack of national competitions to begin with! (maybe 4/5?) Putting aside the fact that the lack of nationals only gives out usually 1 partial paid bid and 2 at large bids. This alone probably allows about 10 teams in total from the UK to compete in dance or cheer at worlds which narrows the opportunities dramatically. Only level 5 teams can go to worlds so are you saying that if there were a level 3 team who had won continuously in the UK, they shouldn't broaden their horizons by going to a competition in the USA to compete against teams there who were pushing the boundaries more at level 3? Their only opportunities to compete over there would be to compete at a national competition. If international teams were unable to compete at a national competition at all, then cheerleading could only grow to a certain point in countries such as the UK.

I think that it is great that teams can compete in other countries as it opens up cheerleading to a range of people across the world. Other sports such as 'rugby league' over here is limited as it is not so popular in other countries! I believe that it can only help the sport grow.

Hope this makes sense!
With the whole bid thing, that's the point. If a team cannot earn one of the bids, they shouldn't be going to worlds and maybe they're not ready to compete against the best of the best. If they can't earn the bid, they should be focusing on becoming more competitive in the UK before they think about traveling all the way to the US. I think US bids should actually be more like this. Right now there are a lot of teams that aren't worlds caliber going to worlds purely because of the abundance of bids in the US. It needs to be harder to get a bid here like it is in the UK to protect the prestige of competing at worlds.
In regards to the senior 3 example, I understand where you're coming from but shouldn't that just give the athletes more incentive to get level 5 skills? I actually feel like a situation like that would encourage the growth of cheerleading rather than hinder it like you're suggesting. If they're bored of competing against other level 3 teams and dominating, they should try even harder to get to the point where they can be on a worlds team. I know it's easier said than done but that's just how I feel like it should be (in an ideal world).
 
I think this is a hard question to answer, as US cheerleading doesn't have a national governing body - instead there are a lot of companies (Varsity, Jams, CheerSport, etc.) that have a large threshold in the market of cheerleading.

In Germany, for example, there are 2 national governing bodies - Cheerleading and Cheer Dance Verband (CCVD) and the Cheerleading Vereinigung Deutschland (CVD). CVD isn't an official body; in actuality CVD is a part of the American Football Verband Deutschlands (AFVD). CCVD is a member of the ECU and, therefore, also the ICU. CVD/AFVD is a member of ECA/ICA.

In both associations, there is a solid and defined national structure for competitions:

In CVD, each state (Bundesland) has a State Championship (Landesmeisterschaft [LM]). The scores from all State Championships are put into a ranking and, depending on category, the Top 5 or Top 10 qualify for Nationals (Deutsche Meisterschaft). The winner of the Nationals is then qualified for the Europeans. The winner of Senior Allgirl is also qualifies to be "Team Germany" at the CWC, which takes place every 2 years. A representative team (you have to tryout for it) is put together for the Senior Coed category for the CWC.

In CCVD, each region (north, south, east and west) has a Regional Championship. All scores are also put into a national ranking and the Top X teams qualify for the Nationals. The winner of Senior Allgirl at the Nationals qualifies to be "Team Germany" at the ICU Worlds. CCVD also has a representative team for Senior Coed.

So, sorry for the brief history lesson.. :D Since this structure is missing in the US - I think it would be hard to say that only US teams are eligible to take part in Nationals... Since there aren't any qualifying competitions for Nationals.
Now if only the US could get our national system that structured... You go Germany!
 
I actually wish that the countries competeing against each other happened more often ($$ makes that tough) because for Worlds we want cheer to grow in other countries so I feel competeing against US teams more often could possibly help with that.

You also can't really compare to cheer to other sports in this aspect because well we don't have a single nationals like many other sports do.
 
With the whole bid thing, that's the point. If a team cannot earn one of the bids, they shouldn't be going to worlds and maybe they're not ready to compete against the best of the best. If they can't earn the bid, they should be focusing on becoming more competitive in the UK before they think about traveling all the way to the US. I think US bids should actually be more like this. Right now there are a lot of teams that aren't worlds caliber going to worlds purely because of the abundance of bids in the US. It needs to be harder to get a bid here like it is in the UK to protect the prestige of competing at worlds.
In regards to the senior 3 example, I understand where you're coming from but shouldn't that just give the athletes more incentive to get level 5 skills? I actually feel like a situation like that would encourage the growth of cheerleading rather than hinder it like you're suggesting. If they're bored of competing against other level 3 teams and dominating, they should try even harder to get to the point where they can be on a worlds team. I know it's easier said than done but that's just how I feel like it should be (in an ideal world).

I don't think it is the lack of talent over here that doesn't allow athletes to compete at worlds! There are now plenty of decent level 5 teams in the UK but there are 2 competitions in the UK that give out cheer worlds bids for level 5 & 6 teams. It simply cuts out a huge number of teams. With regards to 'they need to get better', there are about 3 current cheer gyms in the whole of the UK and hundreds, if not thousands of teams. As the UK is about 5-10 years behind the USA-this would simply be impossible to advance so fast as due to safety, coaches do not want athletes learning fulls and double fulls on a church hall floor which is the surface that many teams cheer on.

I don't see that athletes should have to be at a certain level to experience going to a competition in the usa. e.g. a team from the UK have been going to the USA to compete at all different levels for a few years. Last season they decided to go to the USA (not sure which competition but it was in Orlando the week before worlds) and won a level 5 category ahead of 2 worlds bids winners from the USA. Had this team not learned from lower levels in the usa in the past-they would not have learned enough to win this division! Needless to say, due to the lack of companies giving out bids in the UK-they did not even get a bid for worlds last year-despite coming ahead of 2 worlds bids winners. Does this not contradict your point that they should be better to get a bid? They were/are one of the best teams in the uk, beat usa teams, but did not get a bid!

I see growth as a positive thing. We learn from each other and without countires combining, cheerleading will not come together as a sport worldwide as they will turn into completely different versions of cheerleading in different countries!
 
With the whole bid thing, that's the point. If a team cannot earn one of the bids, they shouldn't be going to worlds and maybe they're not ready to compete against the best of the best. If they can't earn the bid, they should be focusing on becoming more competitive in the UK before they think about traveling all the way to the US. I think US bids should actually be more like this. Right now there are a lot of teams that aren't worlds caliber going to worlds purely because of the abundance of bids in the US. It needs to be harder to get a bid here like it is in the UK to protect the prestige of competing at worlds.
In regards to the senior 3 example, I understand where you're coming from but shouldn't that just give the athletes more incentive to get level 5 skills? I actually feel like a situation like that would encourage the growth of cheerleading rather than hinder it like you're suggesting. If they're bored of competing against other level 3 teams and dominating, they should try even harder to get to the point where they can be on a worlds team. I know it's easier said than done but that's just how I feel like it should be (in an ideal world).


You're talking about WORLDS, not NATIONALS. You get a bid for worlds, but anyone can go to nationals....???????
 
Needless to say, we can't forget that cheerleading (or sports in general) are organized completely different in other parts of the world.

In Germany, they have some crazy system (I have never really understood it! :D) But to get funding from the state, or your local Sports Organization, your sport has to be registered in the German Olympic Board (or something of that nature).

The kids here in our club, pay 10 EURO a month (roughly $13-15) to be a part of the team. There are no tryouts, no minimun requirements.
Levels are also built differently.

Levels in CVD: Level 2 (Peewees), Level 4 (Juniors), Level 6 (Seniors).
Levels in CCVD: Level 1-2 (Peewees), 3-4 (Juniors), 6 (Seniors).

Levels aren't certified like in the US, in that you have to have certain skills to make it into the next level. Nope. It goes by age: 16/18+ Seniors, 16/18-12 Juniors and everything under 12 Peewees.

But to clarify, the levels are exactly equivalent to those in the States. Level 4 is actually more like the US level 5 (doubles are allowed), etc.

Anyway, while kids can pay into hundreds of dollars a month for a cheer gym in the US, kids pay practically nothing here. Lots of stuff is financed through the club or outside sport funding etc. Part of it is actually cool, that this system exists. On the other side, I definitely miss having an amazing gym (that belongs to my team, and doesn't have to be shared with various other teams, etc.) with top equipment, a full spring floor, etc etc.
 
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