All-Star How Mega Gyms Get Mega-er

[L5cheermom]

I was spending a bit of time yesterday stalking some athletes at my kids former gym and checking out the team placements for those kids. The gym is currently the most competitive in our community. I noticed more than a handful of athletes with solid L4 skills being placed on L3 teams because they simply cannot field a competitive L4 team at this time. I suspect in a more competitive community that at least some of those kids would be gone to another gym that would allow them to compete the skills they have mastered. Some here would throw shade toward that new gym that they are profiting from skills that athletes learned at smaller gyms. What strategies can these smaller gyms use to retain that talent? Alienating those athletes is certainly not productive.

 

[Official OWECheer]

Bumping this because I'm curious about these things.

 

[CheerDad18]

Unfortunately it happens all the time. It really all comes down to what your looking for your kid. The difference between a Mega Gym and a Small Gym can be huge. You have to know which environment your child will thrive.

Sometimes it's the parents that want to make that jump and I have seen kids quit becuase it's no longer fun once they leave.

 

[tumbleyoda]

I want to answer this more in depth later but three quick things to point out now.

1.) It depends on whose perspective you are looking at the situation from. Parents see it different from athletes who see it different from coaches who see it different from fans/friends looking from the outside in. While we feel as coaches that if a team doesn't have a chance to win, it is no fun for the athlete and they will quit, there are many athletes that just want the opportunity to compete the skills they have, no matter if they win or lose. A parent does not want to pay thousands of dollars on training not to use those skills, and coaches want to be seen as great coaches by their peers. Do you want a weaker 4 or a stronger 3? Perspective is everything in defining being competitive. This is where I feel mega gyms have a distinct advantage of being able to sell the stay at a lower level a year longer point of view.

2.) Just because an athlete can tumble solid level 4 skills (or any level) it does not mean they can stunt competitively at that level. Nor does it mean they can do both at the same time in a routine with it all on the line. We don't talk enough about what it means mentally tough enough to be at a certain level and how it affects workouts, training, competitions, etc.

3.) IMO it is different competing at a level vs being competitive at a level. From my memory from this past year to be in good position to win a competition meant you had to have a 97% or greater raw score and hit without deductions. This was in order to have a solid chance to win. At Summit in one division a gym scored 99% raw and still did not win. 95% - 96% raw gave you an outsiders chance to win if you were perfect and other teams either did not hit or had a lower raw score. Being placed a level down does give the chance to drive up raw score to have a better chance of winning.

 

[SL&AM]

I want to answer this more in depth later but three quick things to point out now.

1.) It depends on whose perspective you are looking at the situation from. Parents see it different from athletes who see it different from coaches who see it different from fans/friends looking from the outside in. While we feel as coaches that if a team doesn't have a chance to win, it is no fun for the athlete ad they will quit, there are many athletes that just want the opportunity to compete the skills they have, no matter if they win or lose. A parent does not want to pay thousands of dollars on training not use the skills, and coaches want to be seen as great coaches by their peers. Do you want a weaker 4 or a stronger 3? Perspective is everything in defining being competitive. This is where I feel mega gyms have a distinct advantage of being able to sell the stay at a lower level a year longer point of view.

2.) Just because an athlete can tumble solid level 4 skills (or any level) it does not mean they can stunt competitively at that level. Nor does it mean they can do both at the same time in a routine with it all on the line. We don't talk enough about what it means mentally tough enough to be at a certain level and how it affects workouts, training, competitions, etc.

3.) IMO it is different competing at a level vs being competitive at a level. From my memory from this past year to be in good position to win a competition meant you had to have a 97% or greater raw score and hit without deductions. This was in order to have a solid chance to win. At Summit in one division a gym scored 99% raw and still did not win. 95% - 96% raw gave you an outsiders chance to win if you were perfect and other teams either did not hit or had a lower raw score. Being placed a level down does give the chance to drive up raw score to have a better chance of winning.

I swear, you coach at a gym that is nowhere near me, I likely will spend CP's entire AS cheer time without ever meeting you. and yet, every time you post something I feel the urge to read and digest every single word. Can't wait to read your more in-depth post.

 

[L5cheermom]

It is such a challenge for these smaller gyms. Like I said in the original post, in our area there are no other more competitive options available. However, in larger markets that is not the case. It is unfortunate that there are few opportunities for these kids to showcase those skills. In the past there were opportunities for individual competitions, but those seem to have died off with many of the EPs.

 

[tumbleyoda]

It is such a challenge for these smaller gyms. Like I said in the original post, in our area there are no other more competitive options available. However, in larger markets that is not the case. It is unfortunate that there are few opportunities for these kids to showcase those skills. In the past there were opportunities for individual competitions, but those seem to have died off with many of the EPs.

Correct. Lots of complaints about hurry up and get to the awards in the past, and now needing time for bid announcements,etc.so not as many individuals as there used to be.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Correct. Lots of complaints about hurry up and get to the awards in the past, and now needing time for bid announcements,etc.so not as many individuals as there used to be.

YES!

I don't know if this is the case everywhere, but where we live, if your kid competes in a solo, you're paying for a jacket and a trophy because you are likely the only solo competitor.

When I did a few solos in high school, I was guaranteed to compete against someone, even if it was just 5 other kids.

It also doesn't help that there are gyms that discourage or don't allow solos with the reasoning that it takes a child's attention from his/her team routine and performance.

 

[tumbleyoda]

I think as a smaller/lesser known and talked about gym, we have done a very good job at retaining athletes. We are not the biggest in the area, nor the most high profile gym. At our end of year banquet we had 35 athletes that have been with our program over 5 years, with many of them being 7 years and above. One athlete just graduated having been with us for 10 years, since the doors first opened. So I think we are doing something right.

We have not struggled in retaining talent with other all star gyms. Even when we dropped from a worlds division to level 4 two years ago because we had a very young in age senior team that needed to get more competition stunt experience to catch up to their tumbling. We lost one athlete. That athlete is now back with us. Not because we are better than the gym she went to, but because we were a better fit for that athlete. Our coaching style fit her. Our issue is school cheer where the mid-level or lower level skilled athlete can go and be a rockstar immediately plus gain the social standing cred.

Smaller gyms need to be honest about themselves and what they offer. One of the dangers in this industry (and society as a whole) is we spend so much time trying to be like those we idolize, we stop being true to ourselves. We desperately try to become mini me versions of CEA, CA, Cali, etc because we want their success but not their struggle. Know the demographics of your market. Make sure there is disposable income in an area before you put a gym there because you got a great deal - that may be why you got the deal in the first place. Have someone competent take of the business end of the gym - even if it means you sharing control. Write your own vision. Coach with passion. Put a workable plan in motion. Set honest and realistic goals while choosing one area to stretch yourself in.

Smaller gyms need to sell themselves better as well. Every frog praises its own pond. ;) Small does not mean inferior or lacking quality. Yet that is all we tend to hear about the small gym.

Find a niche that no one in your area want to do or does well, and make it your pet project. Be better at it than anyone else.

Have a plan for your students beyond winning a trophy. Actually care about them. Help set them towards a path towards college. Mentor them, train the ones that can potentially become coaches or gym staffers. Develop alternative programs that may become not only an alternate revenue stream but an opportunity to continue to develop these athletes.

We started a power tumbling program. We had the equipment, just no official program. This past year we started competing in power tumbling. Had 30 students the first year. Pushing towards 50 in our second year. This allowed students that may of been on a lower level (tumbling wise) cheer team an opportunity to still compete their higher level tumbling skills. We also set the team up to do local exhibition type events as well.

Another thing we did is created a program that I posted on the boards about called Cartwheels to College. Our internal emphasis is that we can train your athlete from the lowest skill set to that skill set needed for college. And as a parent wouldn't you like to see a tangible return on your financial investment like a college scholarship somewhere? Another big success.

One more thing is we created a hot shot type of tumbling program for youth ages only. Invitation only. These are the athletes that should they remain in the sport and be healthy will be the ones that will get to compete on the last day of Worlds. They and their parents have bought in to the program goals. They are willing to train skills now for a future competitive date. When they make the program there is as much excitement for them as if they just made the main Worlds team at a mega gym. There is a special bond between all of them.

If it becomes a child's dream to go to Worlds, have a chance to make day 2, etc and we don't feel that is where we will be successful as a program that year and they can not wait, we would recommend a program for the athlete to go to, rather than put ourselves at a competitive disadvantage. Same thing would hold true competing at any other skill level. if we can not provide that for them, we recommend other programs in our area where they may e a fit and can be successful in accomplishing that goal.

Just some thoughts. As I constantly say your mileage may vary. :)

 

[DaniV]

@tumbleyoda - great post!!

Would you be interested in sharing more information about your Hot Shot tumbling program for the youth kids? We have quite a few youth aged kids who are level 4/5 tumblers but are being held back on a lower level youth team because of their age. This would be something I would be very interested in presenting to our director as a "invite only" class for them.

 

[tumbleyoda]

@tumbleyoda - great post!!

Would you be interested in sharing more information about your Hot Shot tumbling program for the youth kids? We have quite a few youth aged kids who are level 4/5 tumblers but are being held back on a lower level youth team because of their age. This would be something I would be very interested in presenting to our director as a "invite only" class for them.

Just messaged you

 

[L5cheermom]

@tumbleyoda - that certainly gives credence to the theory that happy people don't leave. It is possible for a small gym to retain talent. I think the most important message in your post is not to try to be something that you are not. I think it is also so important not to vilify the competition. It is inevitable that some of your athletes will end up there and you will likely be "outed".

 

[SL&AM]

I think as a smaller/lesser known and talked about gym, we have done a very good job at retaining athletes. We are not the biggest in the area, nor the most high profile gym. At our end of year banquet we had 35 athletes that have been with our program over 5 years, with many of them being 7 years and above. One athlete just graduated having been with us for 10 years, since the doors first opened. So I think we are doing something right.

We have not struggled in retaining talent with other all star gyms. Even when we dropped from a worlds division to level 4 two years ago because we had a very young in age senior team that needed to get more competition stunt experience to catch up to their tumbling. We lost one athlete. That athlete is now back with us. Not because we are better than the gym she went to, but because we were a better fit for that athlete. Our coaching style fit her. Our issue is school cheer where the mid-level or lower level skilled athlete can go and be a rockstar immediately plus gain the social standing cred.

Smaller gyms need to be honest about themselves and what they offer. One of the dangers in this industry (and society as a whole) is we spend so much time trying to be like those we idolize, we stop being true to ourselves. We desperately try to become mini me versions of CEA, CA, Cali, etc because we want their success but not their struggle. Know the demographics of your market. Make sure there is disposable income in an area before you put a gym there because you got a great deal - that may be why you got the deal in the first place. Have someone competent take of the business end of the gym - even if it means you sharing control. Write your own vision. Coach with passion. Put a workable plan in motion. Set honest and realistic goals while choosing one area to stretch yourself in.

Smaller gyms need to sell themselves better as well. Every frog praises its own pond. ;) Small does not mean inferior or lacking quality. Yet that is all we tend to hear about the small gym.

Find a niche that no one in your area want to do or does well, and make it your pet project. Be better at it than anyone else.

Have a plan for your students beyond winning a trophy. Actually care about them. Help set them towards a path towards college. Mentor them, train the ones that can potentially become coaches or gym staffers. Develop alternative programs that may become not only an alternate revenue stream but an opportunity to continue to develop these athletes.

We started a power tumbling program. We had the equipment, just no official program. This past year we started competing in power tumbling. Had 30 students the first year. Pushing towards 50 in our second year. This allowed students that may of been on a lower level (tumbling wise) cheer team an opportunity to still compete their higher level tumbling skills. We also set the team up to do local exhibition type events as well.

Another thing we did is created a program that I posted on the boards about called Cartwheels to College. Our internal emphasis is that we can train your athlete from the lowest skill set to that skill set needed for college. And as a parent wouldn't you like to see a tangible return on your financial investment like a college scholarship somewhere? Another big success.

One more thing is we created a hot shot type of tumbling program for youth ages only. Invitation only. These are the athletes that should they remain in the sport and be healthy will be the ones that will get to compete on the last day of Worlds. They and their parents have bought in to the program goals. They are willing to train skills now for a future competitive date. When they make the program there is as much excitement for them as if they just made the main Worlds team at a mega gym. There is a special bond between all of them.

If it becomes a child's dream to go to Worlds, have a chance to make day 2, etc and we don't feel that is where we will be successful as a program that year and they can not wait, we would recommend a program for the athlete to go to, rather than put ourselves at a competitive disadvantage. Same thing would hold true competing at any other skill level. if we can not provide that for them, we recommend other programs in our area where they may e a fit and can be successful in accomplishing that goal.

Just some thoughts. As I constantly say your mileage may vary. :)

I bow down to you.

 

[TealShades]

I think as a smaller/lesser known and talked about gym, we have done a very good job at retaining athletes. We are not the biggest in the area, nor the most high profile gym. At our end of year banquet we had 35 athletes that have been with our program over 5 years, with many of them being 7 years and above. One athlete just graduated having been with us for 10 years, since the doors first opened. So I think we are doing something right.

We have not struggled in retaining talent with other all star gyms. Even when we dropped from a worlds division to level 4 two years ago because we had a very young in age senior team that needed to get more competition stunt experience to catch up to their tumbling. We lost one athlete. That athlete is now back with us. Not because we are better than the gym she went to, but because we were a better fit for that athlete. Our coaching style fit her. Our issue is school cheer where the mid-level or lower level skilled athlete can go and be a rockstar immediately plus gain the social standing cred.

Smaller gyms need to be honest about themselves and what they offer. One of the dangers in this industry (and society as a whole) is we spend so much time trying to be like those we idolize, we stop being true to ourselves. We desperately try to become mini me versions of CEA, CA, Cali, etc because we want their success but not their struggle. Know the demographics of your market. Make sure there is disposable income in an area before you put a gym there because you got a great deal - that may be why you got the deal in the first place. Have someone competent take of the business end of the gym - even if it means you sharing control. Write your own vision. Coach with passion. Put a workable plan in motion. Set honest and realistic goals while choosing one area to stretch yourself in.

Smaller gyms need to sell themselves better as well. Every frog praises its own pond. ;) Small does not mean inferior or lacking quality. Yet that is all we tend to hear about the small gym.

Find a niche that no one in your area want to do or does well, and make it your pet project. Be better at it than anyone else.

Have a plan for your students beyond winning a trophy. Actually care about them. Help set them towards a path towards college. Mentor them, train the ones that can potentially become coaches or gym staffers. Develop alternative programs that may become not only an alternate revenue stream but an opportunity to continue to develop these athletes.

We started a power tumbling program. We had the equipment, just no official program. This past year we started competing in power tumbling. Had 30 students the first year. Pushing towards 50 in our second year. This allowed students that may of been on a lower level (tumbling wise) cheer team an opportunity to still compete their higher level tumbling skills. We also set the team up to do local exhibition type events as well.

Another thing we did is created a program that I posted on the boards about called Cartwheels to College. Our internal emphasis is that we can train your athlete from the lowest skill set to that skill set needed for college. And as a parent wouldn't you like to see a tangible return on your financial investment like a college scholarship somewhere? Another big success.

One more thing is we created a hot shot type of tumbling program for youth ages only. Invitation only. These are the athletes that should they remain in the sport and be healthy will be the ones that will get to compete on the last day of Worlds. They and their parents have bought in to the program goals. They are willing to train skills now for a future competitive date. When they make the program there is as much excitement for them as if they just made the main Worlds team at a mega gym. There is a special bond between all of them.

If it becomes a child's dream to go to Worlds, have a chance to make day 2, etc and we don't feel that is where we will be successful as a program that year and they can not wait, we would recommend a program for the athlete to go to, rather than put ourselves at a competitive disadvantage. Same thing would hold true competing at any other skill level. if we can not provide that for them, we recommend other programs in our area where they may e a fit and can be successful in accomplishing that goal.

Just some thoughts. As I constantly say your mileage may vary. :)

Wow you explained that so well and actually answered some questions I had regarding small gyms (at least yours). The way you retain these athletes was one of the questions. The way you created other avenues for these higher level athletes is a great idea. Your gym and athletes are lucky to have you. Good luck to your season and many more to come.