High School Is It Possible To Get A Zero On Tumbling?

[CoachKelly]

I had a local Coach contact me and ask if it was illegal to give zeros on the score sheets for Tumbling. I am an All-Star Coach and not familiar with High School rules at all. She said they do walkovers, BHS and even a tuck and layout in their routine. We are from PA if that helps. She said on the zero tumbling score they said what she did was illegal and stated check rule 2-5-2. Which she has no idea what that is. Her routine was choreographed by a UCA staff member so she thought everything would be legal. Mind you I have not seen them compete so I have no idea what their routine looks like.

They also do a back walkover out of a stunt and was asking if that was illegal. From the High School rules I have looked at it is not as long as she is braced till her hands hit the floor, am I correct.

 

[SparkleSpankies]

1: Judges shouldn't give a ZERO unless the skill was not in the routine what-so-ever. If a skill is illegal and there are issues, it is really up to the competition director, usually there are just deductions and the warnings.
2: AACCA rules allow back-walkovers out of a cradle as long as it is simply placed and not thrown into the walkover.

The only thing I can say is this: I have done routines for people and when all is said and done, they change things and then complain when they are not legal - I am not blaming your friend, just stating what I have seen. HOWEVER, before any competition, you need to be 100% familiar with the rules.

What rule structure was the competition using? I am not seeing the rule 2-5-2. I have both AACCA and NFHS pulled up.

Here is AACCA:

2011-12 School Cheerleading Rules


Here are NFHS: http://www.cheerltd.com/pdfs/11_12nfhs_rules.pdf

 

[MissBee]

Were they entered in a non tumbling division? If it was a league event, they may have rules that are more restrictive than AACCA/NFHS rules. This is why you can't just enter a comp that is close by, you have to read through the rules before registering.
From what you described (back handsprings, tucks, layouts, walkovers) the tumbling is legal for HS based on AACCA and NFHS. The back walkover out of a cradle is newly permitted this year.

 

[SparkleSpankies]

Were they entered in a non tumbling division? If it was a league event, they may have rules that are more restrictive than AACCA/NFHS rules. This is why you can't just enter a comp that is close by, you have to read through the rules before registering.
From what you described (back handsprings, tucks, layouts, walkovers) the tumbling is legal for HS based on AACCA and NFHS. The back walkover out of a cradle is newly permitted this year.

I totally left out the "non" tumbling. But yes, you need to know the rules of the specific competition. Always ask for what rules you are using and also at times the score sheet. If they say their own, make sure you read them

The back-walkover was permitted a few years back, made illegal and the made legal again for this pat year!

 

[MissBee]

I totally left out the "non" tumbling. But yes, you need to know the rules of the specific competition. Always ask for what rules you are using and also at times the score sheet. If they say their own, make sure you read them

The back-walkover was permitted a few years back, made illegal and the made legal again for this pat year!

Just realized that if they were entered in a non tumbling division, there wouldn't be a tumbling section on the score sheet.....duh! Looks like I've got a case of the Mondays!

 

[SparkleSpankies]

LOL I really didn't think that either

 

[LoveOnTop]

WHY would she give them a 0 if they had tumbling in their routine? That makes no sense.

 

[Cheer.Judge]

Judges can give out a "zero" score in sections of a score sheet. If it was a UCA scoresheet, tumbling is divided into running and standing. Maybe the routine only featured standing OR running. Usually when a routine has illegal skills performed, the panel judges don't deduct. They would still score the routine normally, and then the deductions would be taken off at the end.

 

[ttumble0819]

My team is non tumbling whenever it is available - we don't have tumbling beside forward rolls and round offs lol. Anyway sometimes they just leave off the tumbling portion of the score sheet and leave it blank or cross off of the comp
Isn't large or the division big it's an easy fix to not have
Another scoresheet. What I will tell you is if you go non tumble division there is no tumble skills allowed at all - not in a stunt nothing. No handstand no roll no nothing.

 

[Coach_89]

If they were following NFHS Rules, then tumbling out of a stunt (back walkover) is illegal.

 

[cheerforeverever]

2-5-2 would have to be the NHSF rules (Rule 2: general risk mgmt, Section 5: Non Release Stunts, Bullet 2), as AACCA rules start with letters, unless the competition is using a set of state rules or something. Looking at NHSF, this is what 2-5-2 says:
"A top person must not be in an inverted position except for the following:
a. During a suspended roll;
b. When beginning a stunt from a weight-bearing, inverted position on the performing surface, which
goes directly to a non-inverted position shoulder height or below. This stunt must include a base or
spotter who protects the head/neck/shoulder area of the top person. This base or spotter must maintain
contact with the top person from the inverted position until the top person is no longer inverted."

Not sure if they interpreted the back walkover in a stunt as illegal based on this rule, but regardless that should affect stunts and not tumbling. Odd.

 

[SparkleSpankies]

Thanks! I was like WHERE is that! But I wasn't thinking bullet points, I am so technical at times

 

[CoachKelly]

Ok, we figured out the 2-5-2 was for the illegal backwalkover out of the stunt.

As fas as the tumbling they had running but no standing tumbling. And were told they needed atleast 8 tumblers to socre. However, the team that beat them had "one" cartwheel, that's it. No running tumbling at all and they scored a perfect '10'. The Coach that hosted the Comp. called on Monday and told her that a perfect standing cartwheel beats out so-so running tumbling.

 

[SparkleSpankies]

Still seems a little shady, as judges we score on what you do and obviously are always looking for majority, but I don't truly believe that a zero is warranted if you have skills. Seems odd that the few skills that were shown wouldn't have been a zero if the other team had 1 clean pass which is still not tumbling 8.

In any event I wish I could see both teams to see where the discrepeancy may be.

 

[cheerforeverever]

Hmm that does sound like questionable scoring unless the score sheet only counted standing tumbling and then running tumbling was absolutely no where on there (which would be an odd competition score sheet to begin with). In that case 1 "standing cartwheel" would trump 0 standing passes......otherwise a team that did imperfect roundoff backhandsprings or front handsprings would get a higher difficulty score than the perfect cartwheel, but some would be taken off for execution or overall impression (which should still end up with a higher score average than the "perfect cartwheel" especially if there were multiple passes imo).

Out of curiosity, could you put a link to the event's website and/or scoresheet? I'm intrigued.