All-Star Pain In Both Knees- ??

[TheVipersMom]

So this is kind of long and detailed but I need advice.

So my cp is 6 years old. She practices Monday through Friday for a total of 10 hours. Plus more if competitions are coming up.

So to give you info I'm going to have to back up my story a little bit.
A few months ago after a 3hr practice on a Tuesday she complained of her knees hurting.
I figured ok she did a lot of tumbling tonight so maybe she is sore or kind of over doing it. So I let her skip her Wednesday class since it was only tumbling. She skipped it and told me she felt fine anyways. So I was good with that.

The next week she gave me the same excuse but by the next morning she felt good. This problem started occurring about two times a week but always fixed it self. We went out of town for a week so she took a whole week off a few weeks later and I thought it would help and let her knees get some rest. Well we returned and the problem came back again. The reason I let this go on for so long is because she would only complain upon leaving practice but after a good nights sleep she would say they were good. Then thanksgiving approached and she got another week off and now we are back to the same problem.

However, this past week it got worse. She started complaining mid week about her knees (both of them) and this time it didn't subside after going to sleep. On Friday she had a private with her most favorite coach in the whole world. Well anyways they are warming up in the foam pit and on the trampoline and she is doing awesome. He takes her to the floor and after just a couple passes she is almost all tears crying because the spring floor is making her knees hurt. So he agrees and takes her back to the track for tumbling. All night even after the private she was crying and getting upset because her knees were in pain and she can walk fine but any movements like getting up or down or tumbling is killing her. She would not even do a back walkover or anything. Well the weekend ended and she has not over done her self or anything so her knees should be feeling better but there not.

Now I know some of this is going to get personal and though y'all may not care it may help you understand.
Her dad is required by the state of Tennessee he must carry insurance on her. Well he has had insurance on her for a while through his job but just last month I stopped getting child support and I didn't know why the state stopped taking it out of his check. Well I finally talked to him and he told me he quit. So this knee problem as of friday kind of killed me because I was almost positive he doesn't have insurance on her again and yea I can take him back to court but it's getting old. So I decided today that she shouldn't be having this much problems with her knees she is only 6. So I called him and he is agreeing to pay out of pocket for her to go to an ortho. I know this is going to cost soo much money but hey he is the one failing to keep his end of the deal.

Now it's about to get tricky.
I really do believe my daughter is in pain. I can see it in her eyes when she tumbles. I also know that coach she is in love with that was doing her private means so much to her that she wouldn't let him down if she could help it. So I don't think her little theatrics of her knee pain was fake at all. However, she had practice tonight and my daughter still claims that her knees hurt. She told her coach before practice and even though we didn't have a doctor note she was letting her skip the conditioning and tumbling. My problem is all weekend she has been saying she wants knee braces. I know this sounds stupid but I swear it's like my daughter just wants to wear knee braces. That's all she keeps bringing up. So to me that makes me question her. Is she really in that much pain or is she doing it to try to get braces? So halfway through practice I told her coach and said it was ok to make her tumble. On the first pass or two my daughter was crying so hard. Fell on the ground after her BHS and pointing to her knee. She was crying before she even tumbled so it made me question it. I told the coach to keep making her tumble and she stopped crying and was tumbling normal because she realized we weren't having that. At the end of practice I was ready to chew her but out but she starts crying in the car telling me her knees do hurt. I told her that we are bout to shell out so much money to go to an ortho and if she is lying she wont cheer next season. She is telling me she isn't lying and I "hurt her feelings" because I don't believe her. She told me it hurts so bad when she tumbles but if it makes me happy she will tumble on it and not go to the doctor because she doesn't want to stop cheering ever.

Here is my problem. I don't know what to do. I don't know if she is faking this or if she is just saying she will deal with it because she is afraid of the consequence if the doctor thinks nothing is wrong with her. I really really don't want her to be in pain. I love her and I just want to make her happy. My child is great and I don't see her doing something like this but you never know.I've had several talks with her since practice and letting her know whats expected of her and have talked to her more about this pain.

She is certain there is a problem with both knees and I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt.
My question is what would y'all think or do in this situation? After all she is only 6.

Also has anyone experienced this problem before with both knees at the same time it's kind of odd? Or any other advice or examples?

Lol I'm sorry this was so long and so personal in my business I just wanted to put it out there so you could understand why this is a predicament for me!!

 

[Goosepatrick]

First, I totally understand. My CP is 14 and we have dealt with this too with 9 years of cheering.

1. I would recommend taking her to the doctor and having an MRI. At this stage it's so important to rule out any major injuries.
2. In lieu of any major injury, she is 6 and growing a lot. plus she is tumbling a lot. She is probably in a great deal of pain as those two things don't go very well together ... Pending no major issues, she would probably benefit from some strength exercises for her quads, hamstrings and calves to take some pressure of her knees.

But most importantly, make sure there isn't anything wrong. you would hate to wait and then have something really go wrong at such a young age.

It is a predicament. And its a hard parent balance.

Good luck!

 

[TheVipersMom]

First, I totally understand. My CP is 14 and we have dealt with this too with 9 years of cheering.

1. I would recommend taking her to the doctor and having an MRI. At this stage it's so important to rule out any major injuries.
2. In lieu of any major injury, she is 6 and growing a lot. plus she is tumbling a lot. She is probably in a great deal of pain as those two things don't go very well together ... Pending no major issues, she would probably benefit from some strength exercises for her quads, hamstrings and calves to take some pressure of her knees.

But most importantly, make sure there isn't anything wrong. you would hate to wait and then have something really go wrong at such a young age.

It is a predicament. And its a hard parent balance.

Good luck!

Thanks!! That makes so much sense!!!!

 

[mecheermom]

I totally agree with Goosepatrick. Take her somewhere to get it checked out. It could be mental...it could be oshgood schlatters, it could be a real injury. The problem is, as parents we don't know until we get it checked out.

Since you (or her Dad that is) will be paying cash for the visit, make sure to discuss this with the doctor before you go. Most doctors understand and will charge a substantially reduced rate for cash payments...if they know about it ahead of time.

Good luck and keep us posted!!

 

[SheCheers]

I'm not diagnosing your cp at all, but when my cp was having knee pain, it was because her quads (and IT band) were so tight, it was pulling up on her knees causing pain. some massage, ice, foam rolling and stretches and she was pain free after about a week and a half.

 

[INeverStopCheering]

I experience this problem starting when I was around 10 years old. After hard play or physical activity, my knees would kill me, but a day later they would be just fine. It got to the point where squatting down or climbing stairs caused me so much pain I would tear up. We had always chalked it up to "growing pains" but after that we went to go see a doctor. I have something called Patella Femoral Pain Syndrome. It means the tendons surrounding my knee cap never attached correctly and so my knee cap slides around causing pain. Another possibility is Osgood Schlatters Disease which is where you grow a rapid amount in a short period of time and your knees don't have time to catch up. Some things you can look for to indicate these problems are:

• Complaining of pain under the knee cap
• Uneven wear on the soles of her shoes (look at flip flops)
• Her knees roll in or out when she walks (knock kneed)
• Pain caused by bending, doing lunges, or climbing stairs

If she does wind up having Patella Femoral she'll get inserts to wear in her shoes and physical therapy. They did not give me braces, but did show me how to tape my knees. That may vary from doctor to doctor. Lastly, make sure you take her to an ortho. My pediatrician incorrectly diagnosed what I had. Best of luck to you and the kiddo!

 

[TheVipersMom]

This is why I love this board. Everyone is so helpful and someone usually has experienced or knows about what could be going on.

INeverStopCheering
A lot of those indicators of both of the things you brought up sound like her. I never noticed she was knoc kneed until she started cheering but only really in the last year. Now I feel like she needs to go to the ortho for sure just for anything that could be wrong. We won't be going to her doctor because he said they may refer us to one and since there is no insurance covering this were just going to skip the middle man and go to someone who deals with this on a regular. My child's father was on the football team in high school and the doctor that serves all the student athletes in the county for injuries has agreed to take her so hopefully he can handle this. Lol

Thanks again to everyone!!!!

 

[AshleyErin]

I also had pain in both of my knees during my growth spurt, what I ended up being diagnosed with was patellar tendonitis. Basically jumpers knee, It came from the pounding of jumps and tumbling (and it didn't help that I walked with my feet turned out ever so slightly). I was fine when I walked, but an excess of pressure made the area just under my knee cap hurt. I would have never known I had a legitimate problem if I didn't go and see the doctor about it. It's much better to nip any possible injury in the bud sooner rather than later!

 

[TheVipersMom]

I also had pain in both of my knees during my growth spurt, what I ended up being diagnosed with was patellar tendonitis. Basically jumpers knee, It came from the pounding of jumps and tumbling (and it didn't help that I walked with my feet turned out ever so slightly). I was fine when I walked, but an excess of pressure made the area just under my knee cap hurt. I would have never known I had a legitimate problem if I didn't go and see the doctor about it. It's much better to nip any possible injury in the bud sooner rather than later!

Thanks for sharing.. What did they do to help you or did it eventually stop?

 

[AshleyErin]

Well they gave me a brace that is essentially a stretchy band to support my patella, I ended up suffering with it so long without it being checked out that it eventually got worse in one knee (I was compensating because the other side started hurting more) and I relied on the one knee so much that it wore away at my ligaments and meniscus

 

[ShawnsDadof4]

Kris10boo, what is crazy is as I started reading this, I actually thought I wrote it..... actually my son has had the same problem. The thing that gets me is I have taken him to AI Dupont and he has a specialist and 2 other Drs. that look at his knees and legs and he can go outside on the concrete road and do standing fulls, tumble passes and everything then when he starts really tumbling on spring floor his knees have him in excruciating pain. But that too comes and goes. He can be at practice doing full out tumbling and everything is fine then, he does a front punch pass on spring floor and his knees are killing him. Then the next day he is in school flipping with his friends outside in the grass and parking lot. He has had an MRI and his meniscus and ACL is all normal with no sign of any problems and his X-ray does show some bone fragments on one knee but the Drs. don't seem too concerned about doing much about that. The end result..... some pain pills, elevate the knees, ice it, brace and stay off of them for a while!!!! I figured that they would have to do some type of surgery to correct this problem but not yet!! The problem my son has is that I tell him to take it easy and lets try to figure out what is causing it to hurt like that and uhhhhhh he won't stop. Until his legs are just laying there by themselves on the mat, he continues!!

 

[fullpass]

It could be something as simple as tendinitis due to overuse/a growth spurt (in kids the bones grow first before muscles etc and that causes a lot of painful stretching) or it could be worse. One important aspect seems to be that the pain is in both knees. I'm no doctor but that seems like it's probably more growth related than a specific injury but you should get it checked out.
I will never understand the way kids love knee braces etc. I think it starts early when everybody needs a bandaid any time anyone has a boo boo! But, with that being said, you should let her know that long term use of the braces isn't usually a great idea and it can make your body weaker rather than stronger.
Good luck!!

 

[KB_Legend]

I have not read this entire thread so I apologize for any redundancy... But I have a few thoughts, I have been coaching for a long time and can say that knee discomfort/pain is not uncommon in cheerleading, especially among girls, and there are some things to look for. First off I would say you need to look into a few things before you go to a doctor and spend tons of money. "Pain" is such a nondescript symptom that it's highly likely you will spend a lot of money on x-rays and MRI's for nothing, so I would recommend you check on a few things first.

1) Has she grown a lot recently? When kids grow quickly it can cause stress on tendons that aren't stretching as fast as the bones are growing which leads to discomfort. This commonly manifests itself in the patellar tendon (the thing you can feel connecting the top of the shin to the knee cap) and can be slightly reduced by stretching the quad but mostly just has to be waited out.

2) Are her quadriceps significantly stronger than her hamstrings? Lack of hamstring strength is a common problem in this country and is especially bad in cheerleaders and gymnasts. It can cause minor problems such as frontal knee pain due to the extra pulling from the over strengthened quad and can eventually lead to more severe knee problems such as ligament tears in some cases. Again stretching the quad will help this but also adding lots of hamstring conditioning will help

3) Are her knees going over or past her toes in her tumbling skills? This to me is the most overlooked and also the most common cause of knee pain in cheerleaders. MANY athletes let their knees go forward past their toes every time they do a back handspring, a tuck, a punch front, and sometimes even roundoffs! This will not only create issues with the tumbling skills and is completely incorrect from a technical standpoint, but it will ALWAYS cause knee pain. So take a very close look and see if her knees are traveling forward in her tumbling, I'm not sure what tumbling she is actually working on but when she sits for a BHS or punches for a front tuck her shin bones should be perpendicular to the floor or even creating an obtuse angle with her feet. If that's not the case then that should be the first thing you address! It's also possible if not likely that her pain is being caused by multiple issues

 

[cheererinIL]

Patella Femoral Pain Syndrome.

I have this too! I've never heard anyone else say it before! I was diagnosed at 14 after years of knee pain (I was dramatic too, so there was a lot of.. are you SURE your knees hurt?). I had a lateral release (from what I understood, part of my tendon was "snipped" and pulled to keep my knee cap in place) done when I was 17 on my left knee. It still bothers me and has permanent swelling.. an unfortunate side effect of the surgery but the surgery up from the lateral release sounds terrifying (it involves breaking bones and resetting the knee cap) and my ortho said he never even attempts it on anyone under 25. I also overcompensated for years and now have issues with my right knee.

Point being- yes, it is expensive to take her to a specialist. But at some point, money is just money (I say this as a college student with $30 in my bank account who works her butt off) and your daughter is your daughter. You know what you need to do to make sure she's alright.

 

[TheVipersMom]

I just want to say thank u to everyone. Y'all all have gave me something to think about.
So we had the appt made with the ortho yesterday and it's not until jan3.
He is out on Christmas break..
Luckily my cp doesn't have any practice again till Jan2 so maybe the break will help her knees feel better but we still need to get to the bottom of this. I really just want to know what's going on.

If y'all think of anything else- I'm all ears.. Otherwise I'll definitely let you know what he has to say when we go.