All-Star Super Spin-off: Priorities

[kristenthegreat]

This is another spin-off post from the other two about releasing athletes. It has been mentioned numerous times that in the list of priorities, the waiver issue is WAY far down the line (frankly I agree). What I AM curious about are the things that are higher up on the list. I'm getting the feeling that for parents it's one thing, and for gym owners/coaches it's another. Maybe if we spell out what we're looking for, we can collectively get a better handle on addressing the issues at hand. SO, here's a minor poll:
*Are you an athlete/fan/coach/owner?
*If you could put your Top 5 Priorities in order (things that you think we/the USASF need to work on NOW), what would they be? If you can't necessarily order them, just pick your top 5.
*WHY are these priorities important to you as opposed to others (ones people have mentioned or otherwise), and WHAT will they do? (Make things safer, better regulate gym things, make for better competitions, etc)

 

[WorkToWin]

At this point I am a fan, but I hope to return to becoming an athlete. Here's what I want to see now:
1. Standardized Score Sheet
2. Coaches "certification"
3. Scores and scoresheets open to the public

 

[mstealtoyou]

I can't wait to read this thread. I'll bet there will be many interesting posts.

 

[5-6-7-8]

Just a parent - my understanding of the issues is probably not as thorough as most, so just my observations / thoughts.

In no particular order, and some of them are intertwined I'm sure. In fact, reading it again, maybe #4 is first, since it would be hard to address the others without it (as shown in the discussions on the releases.)

1. Scoring visibility publicly

2. Judging accountability (more training, peer or other reviews, maybe an independent entity contracted by EPs).

3. Universal scoresheet (though left to EPs to weight sections somehow).

4. A true governing board to hold everyone accountable (gym owners, EPs). I think all of these discussions on the releases makes me feel like the USASF just isn't quite there yet. It seems there is little connection between everyone.

5. Athlete registration that gets to the point where credentials are checked at competitions (the shoe tag idea that has been mentioned.)

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

A parent

1. Scores being visible to the public.
2. Coach certification for tumbling and stunting.
3. Gym certification based on coach certifications, background checks, and safety measures in place (CPR & first aid certified staff member always in gym when athletes are practicing, distance from EMS, etc)
4. Universal scoresheets

For the scores being visible to the public and universal scoresheets, we just need to be more transparent. I am a parent, paying a lot of money for this sport. I want to know how my child's team and gym is faring. Why do we put up with not knowing?!? My CP had a comp last month and they got 2nd of 2. Was there a 0.5 point difference or a 50 point difference? Who knows!
I would really like to have coaches credentialed for tumbling AND stunting. I think these are both equally important and where the vast majority of injuries occur. I think that in order to be a USASF gym that the coaches for tumbling and for stunting need to be certified to the level they are coaching. If you are only credentialed to a level 3 for stunting or tumbling, that is it. And the liability insurance needs to be tied to it. If you are a level 3 coach working with a level 5 team and someone gets hurt, you and the gym should get penalized. Repeated infractions can cost you your USASF membership.
I think the gym certification needs to be based off of coaches having their certifications, background checks for staff, safety plans in place, and I am going to throw in that the amount of legality deductions from the previous season as well. It would make it very nice for prospective parents to log onto the USASF website and see "Susie's Allstars- USASF Silver Gym" and be able to see what makes it a silver gym, and what the gold level gym up the road has in place for safety that Susies Allstars doesn't.

 

[kristenthegreat]

I started this thread, and I realized I never posted my own! I don't have an order (because I'm a middle child and don't like showing favoritism lol):
*A more defined governing body- USASF is getting there, but I'd like to be able to accurately define who is there, what they do, and the areas they control with more certainty. Unfortunately, that requires some push from EPs/Gym Owners to give up control, which I don't think they'd be too keen on necessarily.
*Visible Score Sheets- For the LOVE of all things sacred, just give them up already! Smart gyms will still stack their routines effectively, and not-so-smart gyms will still whine and say 'Well, now this PROVES they're cheaters!' because they didn't bother to learn.
*Universal Scoresheet, or at the very least, Universal Score Basis- We are probably the only sport where at one competition you can score a 500.1 and drop a stunt with no penalty and go to another and get smacked in the face with deductions for drops and score a 60.34. It's confusing, it's limiting, and does very little for us. If Universal Scoresheet is hard to push, I suggest a Universal Score Basis: Scores must all be out of the same number of points with the same sections and same requirements/penalties BUT things can be weighted a little differently when it comes to difficulty/execution or stunts/tumbling etc. I'm not the person to figure that out, but it's an idea.
*Must be a member gym to compete at USASF events. Maybe restrict the amount of local competitions that can be run, and they can ONLY be run by member gyms?
*Judge Certification Redefined- More training, more consistency, more review options, better pay? I agree with whomever suggested to maybe create an outside contractor for judges that train people. Or add some 'prestige' to the position so people have the incentive to train hard for it and WANT to be one. How prestigious is it to be an Olympic/Worlds gymnastics judge!

 

[NEliteSteven]

Just a parent - my understanding of the issues is probably not as thorough as most, so just my observations / thoughts.

In no particular order, and some of them are intertwined I'm sure. In fact, reading it again, maybe #4 is first, since it would be hard to address the others without it (as shown in the discussions on the releases.)

1. Scoring visibility publicly

2. Judging accountability (more training, peer or other reviews, maybe an independent entity contracted by EPs).

3. Universal scoresheet (though left to EPs to weight sections somehow).

4. A true governing board to hold everyone accountable (gym owners, EPs). I think all of these discussions on the releases makes me feel like the USASF just isn't quite there yet. It seems there is little connection between everyone.

5. Athlete registration that gets to the point where credentials are checked at competitions (the shoe tag idea that has been mentioned.)

I wholeheartedly agree. That would make all the difference in the world. However, until we have a universal scoresheet, I'm not sure how plausible that would be if you were going to be judging for different EP's. I can't imagine having to judge Battle, and then going to Cheersport. It's two different worlds. But I suppose if that's your actual job, it wouldn't be so bad.

 

[tumbleyoda]

Awwww kristenthegreat - just 5????

Coach and Parent:

1.) Coach certification prepared by people with a passion for the area that they are certifying with some real questions. Any well trained tumble coach can tell the tumbling section was written by someone who doesn't really care or understand proper progressions or terminology. Don't make it easy - make it right. In this same vein every gym must have at least 90% of their staff certified in order to be a certified gym. This allows the gym to hire and train new people. Notice I said Staff not coach - the loophole exploited here would be to hire them for the front desk, cleaning, etc and not the gym. Staff encompasses everyone on staff whether paid or volunteer.
2.) Judging certification and consistency across the board. Know the rules. If it is a deduction for one team it is not a warning for another team. If coaches need to be certified and stand behind their routines then all judges need to be certified and be willing to stand behind your scores.
3.) Transparency in scoring. Coaches and kids can handle losing. What they can not handle is losing and not knowing why and being insulted that they are "stupid", don't know how to read a score sheet, or are just sore losers. It would also allow those that are over the judges to see if there are patterns for judges scoring certain programs consistently too high or too low without good reason.
4.) Athlete Registration. Get er done. No system is 100 percent fool proof but having no system makes us just look like a fool.
5.) USASF - STOP MAKING LOOPHOLES! If you make a rule, stop giving wiggle room because inevitably it is the more prominent programs that get through them, the smaller ones don't and then we have unnecessary drama because of perceived favoritism. If it takes two years to make a rule, fine, but make it so it fits 99.9 percent of situations for every member gym out there. If a gym breaks the rules then they should be disciplined in accordance to the rules. Otherwise why have a rule in the first place?

 

[XtremeWpg]

Judge and Former Coach:

1) Coach certification that allow for a complete understanding of the USASF rules. I see far to many credentialed coaches who put illegal elements in routines and say "I didn't know". Well you should. It is your job after all. As well, I would like to see credentialing clinics put on in major centers, this would allow for a pre-test session with a credentialler to iron out any grey areas that a certifying coach is unsure of
2) Universal score sheets. Until you have this, you cannot have judging certification or consistency. I know the sheets we use for my organization here are not the same as Varsity or Worlds or anything else. I know ours inside and out, but hand me a varsity sheet and its almost a foreign language.
3) Transparency in scoring. This sort of goes in hand with my point 2. I'd like to see it (sans comments, those shouldn't be public). I know at the Sea to Sky International the scores of Round 1 are posted before Round 2 begins and you receive your sheets before Round 2 as well. This was so helpful as a coach. You didn't know exactly how the other teams scored, but you could infer what had happened based on overall score
4) Eliminate as much of the grey areas in the rules as possible. I realize there will always be teams that can find and exploit them, and kudos to them for doing so, but it makes juding harder when you're not quite sure because it's not clearly defined.
5) This is personal, but for the love of everything, stop having all non USA teams compete only in International Divisions. If teams want to compete in Large Senior Coed and they're from wherever, let them! I understand why the International Divisions exist, but I feel like Internationals teams should have the option

 

[BlueCat]

Judge and Former Coach:


5) This is personal, but for the love of everything, stop having all non USA teams compete only in International Divisions. If teams want to compete in Large Senior Coed and they're from wherever, let them! I understand why the International Divisions exist, but I feel like Internationals teams should have the option

Non-US teams have the option to compete in whichever division they are age-eligible for. Most just opt not to enter those divisions.

 

[XtremeWpg]

Non-US teams have the option to compete in whichever division they are age-eligible for. Most just opt not to enter those divisions.

Interesting. I was told that they didn't. We don't exactly have an abundance of Worlds eligible teams in Manitoba. And by that I mean, we have no level 5's and even our level 6's would be slaughtered. It's pretty much a non-issue here.

 

[REA Dad]

This is another spin-off post from the other two about releasing athletes. It has been mentioned numerous times that in the list of priorities, the waiver issue is WAY far down the line (frankly I agree). What I AM curious about are the things that are higher up on the list. I'm getting the feeling that for parents it's one thing, and for gym owners/coaches it's another. Maybe if we spell out what we're looking for, we can collectively get a better handle on addressing the issues at hand. SO, here's a minor poll:
*Are you an athlete/fan/coach/owner?
*If you could put your Top 5 Priorities in order (things that you think we/the USASF need to work on NOW), what would they be? If you can't necessarily order them, just pick your top 5.
*WHY are these priorities important to you as opposed to others (ones people have mentioned or otherwise), and WHAT will they do? (Make things safer, better regulate gym things, make for better competitions, etc)

I was just thinking about making this same exact post and I come and you already made it! Now I have to go put a list together.

 

[BlueCat]

Things I would like to see personally. (Not necessarily in order.)

1. Eliminate secretive scoring allowing coaches/athletes/parents to better understand results.
2. Universal scoring system. Current situation is absurd.
3. Achieve a more even balance of representation on major USASF boards/committees, but make them smaller and more efficient
4. Better tracking of athletes/teams/gyms to improve decision-making.
5. Open-source judging/scoring system allowing scores to be immediate and less error-prone

 

[kristenthegreat]

tumbleyoda - While I'm sure the more dedicated among us could probably come up with 20 things, I figured I'd give everyone a fair shot and limit it to 5 to start lol. However, feel free to add more! I know many people think of the same main 5 (universal, judging consistency, transparency, etc), but I wonder if there are other things that people want addressed we haven't really considered.

REA Dad - Haha, I'm a quick thinker . But after reading the other post, it quickly became clear that everyone has different priorities, but I wanted people to understand WHY. I find half of the arguments people get into could be avoided or brought down a level when people understand where everybody is coming from in the FIRST place..I'm SUCH a middle child lol.

 

[Coach Troy]

Without a doubt the biggest problem we have today in cheerleading is the poorly educated judging panels....

1. They interpret the rubric and scoring grids any way they want so results are always in question...

2. They have very little idea about what is hard and what is not.. most have not taught cheerleading since the "pony sit" was all the rage...

3. There is no system in place to qualify judges...we test and certify rules judges so we are sure they they know the latest interpretations of the rules yet we have judges with level 3 knowledge of skills judge level 5 routines...