All-Star Boys Shouldn't Fly???

[Mamarazzi]

To me, there should be two different discussions:

1. Should males be ALLOWED to fly and/or should their gender impact the score the team receives?
2. Do you personally enjoy watching male flyers do body positions?

1. Yes, they should be allowed to fly. No, gender should not affect score.
2. Only if he's equal to, preferably better than, the girl flyers on the team, for the sake of aesthetics.
BUT...
1. They are allowed to fly and it CAN affect score because score sheets are subjective. And,
2. I don't even think twice about basket boys anymore, so I'm really referring to elite stunts.

 

[nicolee]

Have y'all forgotten that part of the issue we've discussed over and over :deadhorse: is that all star score sheets aren't 100% objective anyway? In a perfect world, judges preference wouldn't play any part in any score, but it does.

Obviously they can't be completely objective. Nor can judges in gymnastics, or diving, or dancing, or a million other activities.

But my issue here is the whole "Hmm he's a boy and some people really discourage that and I think it's kind of distracting and a lot of people in the industry would probably agree with me but I won't mention their names and it's not technically a rule but it kind of annoys me so maybe don't do it".

It's wishy-washy and unprofessional.

 

[StarEyes]

I don't like it when it's obviously a gimmick; they fly their smallest boy just because having a boy flyer is different. A few seasons ago a team locally did it, and suddenly every other team in the area started doing it too. It quickly lost it's novelty and it was obvious that none of them were confident in the air.

If he's flying because he's a good flyer or he's needed in that position, then I think it's pretty cool. He's going to grow up to be really versatile.

 

[Mamarazzi]

Obviously they can't be completely objective. Nor can judges in gymnastics, or diving, or dancing, or a million other activities.

But my issue here is the whole "Hmm he's a boy and some people really discourage that and I think it's kind of distracting and a lot of people in the industry would probably agree with me but I won't mention their names and it's not technically a rule but it kind of annoys me so maybe don't do it".

It's wishy-washy and unprofessional.

I understand your point here, and I don't disagree, but like SO many issues in cheer, maybe this judge was stating his/her knowledge of absolute truth which nobody will speak aloud because it just " looks bad." There are judges, coaches and gym owners who don't like seeing black girls fly, but they won't come out and state it publicly because of the backlash they would receive.
Varsity doesn't like fierce gay boys. Same thing, and look how they got reamed for that.

 

[Mom2Cheergirls]

One of our local high schools that won states a couple of years back there was a boy who flew and who also single man based a stunt and looked SPECTACULAR doing both.

 

[ScottyB]

One of our local high schools that won states a couple of years back there was a boy who flew and who also single man based a stunt and looked SPECTACULAR doing both.

You mean that janky basket at 2:55? I didn't see a boy in the air otherwise (I could be blind and missed a stunt where he flew though)

 

[AlwaysLearning]

To me, there should be two different discussions:

1. Should males be ALLOWED to fly and/or should their gender impact the score the team receives?
2. Do you personally enjoy watching male flyers do body positions?

1. Yes and gender shouldn't affect the score, but I'm sure it does more often than it should.
2. Usually no, but if they're done well I'm impressed. IMO If you only have 1 male flyer then they need to be centered for visual balance. (That's my type A personality coming out).

I believe (though I may be wrong) the Vizion boy just aged onto a S5 team. He is young and talented, but (at least partially due to his age) is on the small side and, for now, not able to base most of the older girls on the team.

What is a gym to do? They have a small, incredibly talented boy. Personally, I don't like tumble bunnies who don't do anything else on the team. I think Vizion did a good job of creating a visual balance for the stunts, didn't overuse him as a flyer, and he showed he can do it well.



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[uptown_outlaw]

I could care less if a boy flys. Boys have been flying in elites, baskets, and pyramids for over 20 years... the more important question is, can he help or hurt your technique score..

 

[Mom2Cheergirls]

You mean that janky basket at 2:55? I didn't see a boy in the air otherwise (I could be blind and missed a stunt where he flew though)

Yes and wow you may not like it but they won states. Does nastiness get you very far in life? Perhaps your parents never taught you if you don't have anything nice to say....

 

[Miialovescheer]

To me, there should be two different discussions:

1. Should males be ALLOWED to fly and/or should their gender impact the score the team receives?
2. Do you personally enjoy watching male flyers do body positions?

I am probbably going to get my first negative ratings for this but o well.

1. YES guys should be allowed to fly. If they cant use him in other places as a base or a backspot or even otherwise i dont care. you shouldnt be judged on your gender as a flyer.
2. Yes actullay i do. I do not care abou what gender you have. OMG there are male gymnast or even male olympic divers that are really flexible.. Do anyone even say a word about them doing what they do?

And honestly ive already said my share on this matter but i cant stay quiet..

 

[ScottyB]

Yes and wow you may not like it but they won states. Does nastiness get you very far in life? Perhaps your parents never taught you if you don't have anything nice to say....

Excuse my shortness, it was not my intent to be nasty. I took the time to watch the video where you said the young man's flying was spectacular and in review of it and in the nature of the discussion, I disagreed and stated that.

The routine was great and I never said they shouldn't have won. But the need to put the young man into the basket was not there. They had multiple girls on the ground during that sequence and the basket wasn't high or pretty so to me it looks like the coach tried to use the boy as a gimmick. Which to me is not cool.

 

[russmin]

I understand your point here, and I don't disagree, but like SO many issues in cheer, maybe this judge was stating his/her knowledge of absolute truth which nobody will speak aloud because it just " looks bad." There are judges, coaches and gym owners who don't like seeing black girls fly, but they won't come out and state it publicly because of the backlash they would receive.
Varsity doesn't like fierce gay boys. Same thing, and look how they got reamed for that.

I've thought about this and and it would be extremely disappointing to know that people out there would feel this way :/

 

[Mom2Cheergirls]

Excuse my shortness, it was not my intent to be nasty. I took the time to watch the video where you said the young man's flying was spectacular and in review of it and in the nature of the discussion, I disagreed and stated that.

The routine was great and I never said they shouldn't have won. But the need to put the young man into the basket was not there. They had multiple girls on the ground during that sequence and the basket wasn't high or pretty so to me it looks like the coach tried to use the boy as a gimmick. Which to me is not cool.

Thank you for describing your intent we'll agree to disagree on his ability.But I appreciate your insight and opinion even if we agree to disagree when you share your point of view versus just calling something hanky and totally appreciate your further discussion and a friendly debate on views. So thanks and please know that I mean that sincerely. It could be that I saw him and this team at several comps do this and will agree this was not his best. I will state I feel my view is skewed (have no kids on this team or will even be going to this school) but I appreciate this team used boys as more than lifting machines and had seen various routines they did over the years.

 

[ScottyB]

Thank you for describing your intent we'll agree to disagree on his ability.But I appreciate your insight and opinion even if we agree to disagree when you share your point of view versus just calling something hanky and totally appreciate your further discussion and a friendly debate on views. So thanks and please know that I mean that sincerely. It could be that I saw him and this team at several comps do this and will agree this was not his best. I will state I feel my view is skewed (have no kids on this team or will even be going to this school) but I appreciate this team used boys as more than lifting machines and had seen various routines they did over the years.

You are welcome, and thank you for pointing out my unintended harshness. Our discussion within this discussion really goes to show that cheerleading is very subjective and more often than not many people do not agree :-)

 

[mac&cheer06]

if they are this good? why not? [emoji12] [emoji12] [emoji12] [emoji12]