All-Star Cheer Theory: Cheerleading's Biggest Problem

[Cheerhastakenovermylife]

They are given the info, but if skills are watered down, changed, missed, etc., the DOD will change in all of these sports, so judges are still watching for that. The list of skills just gives them a starting point

Thank you. What's DOD?

 

[JM Cheer Dad]

Thank you. What's DOD?

DoD aka Degree of Difficulty: concept used in several sports and other competitions to indicate the technical difficulty of a skill, performance, or course, often as a factor in scoring. This is is typically an objective measure, in sports whose scoring may also rely on subjective judgments of performance.

 

[catlady]

I can't imagine anyone saying they wouldn't want to see the scores. With that said, from an EP's perspective, I can see why they don't. When I watch competitive skating at home, there is an announcer explaining and pointing out the skills and connecting skills that are more difficult and why. They, also, point out any skills that were excluded or not performed well. I love AS, but the scoring has evolved quite a bit just in the six years we've been in it. Heck, it wasn't until about 4 years ago that all of the events we attended used the same score sheet. Comparative scoring has been in & out, category weights have changed on top of rule changes in safety, ratios/percentages to max out a category, difficulty in connecting and assisting, etc. Releasing scores to the public, especially when the majority of us aren't educated in scoring, is truly pointless without judge explanation.

 

[coacha]

I can't imagine anyone saying they wouldn't want to see the scores. With that said, from an EP's perspective, I can see why they don't. When I watch competitive skating at home, there is an announcer explaining and pointing out the skills and connecting skills that are more difficult and why. They, also, point out any skills that were excluded or not performed well. I love AS, but the scoring has evolved quite a bit just in the six years we've been in it. Heck, it wasn't until about 4 years ago that all of the events we attended used the same score sheet. Comparative scoring has been in & out, category weights have changed on top of rule changes in safety, ratios/percentages to max out a category, difficulty in connecting and assisting, etc. Releasing scores to the public, especially when the majority of us aren't educated in scoring, is truly pointless without judge explanation.

Not only that, but really an overall score means nothing. 96.25 - what does that mean? Without the scoring breakdown of each category and the ability to see where points were lost and where they maxed out, it really is kind of meaningless. Yes, you can compare to other teams, but just because you lost another team by 0.5 points, you still wouldn't know WHERE you were beat out in points and where you might have beat them in points.

Not that I don't think scores should be available. I'm just pointing out that to the average Sally's mom, not only do they not understand the intricacies of the scoresheet but an overall score isn't really that helpful either.

 

[Mom23cheergirls]

Article:
Cheerleading's Biggest Problem is Only Getting Worse - Cheer Theory
Cheerleading’s Biggest Problem is Only Getting Worse

My thoughts:


Let's discuss!


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Better PR and social media usage for all events needs to be a priority for these EP's. It's 2017, I enjoyed EP's that really utilize social media before, during and after a competition. (epic for one, sweetheart classic) Prizes were given away through social media contest and scores were posted. As parents and athletes make some great financial and time sacrifices the transparency should be ever more demanded. We are paying for a service in a way. I can see some cons but we must hold this industry to a high standard to allow healthy growth and competition.
I think an open and public view on scores in all categories after each division is sensible. Getting the information out and teaching the cheer families so they understand the expectation and results will only strength this industry. It's our backs they are standing on to build their empire and this is a competitive performance sports that comes down to, in many ways, a score.
Would always love to see more transparency.



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[Teacher Mom]

My daughter told me there is going to be live scoring at Worlds where they break down each team skill for skill and compare them to each other. Anyone else hear this?

 

[Keep_Believing]

I heard they will compare skill by skill at finals. Just what I heard, might not be accurate. I would think too many teams to do that in semi finals.

 

[Teacher Mom]

I heard they will compare skill by skill
at finals. I would think too many teams to do that in semi finals.

Wouldn't it be more helpful for teams in semis going into finals?

 

[Keep_Believing]

Wouldn't it be more helpful for teams in semis going into finals?

Definitely, but when more than 10 in a group Comparative scoring is very difficult. It is been mentioned before going last in groups of more than 10, is a big advantage.

 

[cherita.cheerology]

My daughter told me there is going to be live scoring at Worlds where they break down each team skill for skill and compare them to each other. Anyone else hear this?

I haven't heard this. It's very interesting though.


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[Natalia5]

Just my opinion, but I believe one of the reasons scores are not released is fear of gym owners loosing customers due to low scoring teams/routines. If you only release the ranking of a teams placement i.e. 1st , 2nd, 3rd , 4th etc...verse 1st place with a score of 95.45 , 2nd place with a score of 94.75 and etc.... 3rd place 94.25, 4th place 92.35 and 5th place with a score of 85.45(BUT WE HIT OUR ROUTINE) parents will start to hold these gyms/coaches more accountable for the poor job of their creativity when it comes to choreography/stunting/dance etc.

This but as far as a parent leaving due to low scoring . I don't know, I do not think that a parent would have to necessarily see scoring to question why their CP's team is not doing well. Just sit through and watch your CP's division block during a competition remove the rose colored glasses for just a moment and actually compare apples to apples i.e. your SY1 to all of the other SY1's, it will become quite clear to most as to why "We Hit" but with an 85.

 

[cheer25mom]

Just because events aren't releasing scores your owners and coaches do have them. Ask them! You hold them accountable!!! Our owners make them readily available to any parent who wants to see them. You can read them and everything. You can also see the scores of the other teams in the division.

We have competed against people whose coaches have told them if you would have hit you would have won, or we only lost by .XX and then they ask me for our scores and I have no problem telling them.

If you lose, you lose.. do not lie to your parents- just because you aren't telling them it doesn't mean someone else isn't.

I'd much rather my gym say we lost because they have harder stunts, they didn't have deductions, they had better tumbling instead of oh if we hit we would have won when in all actuality us hitting still put a point behind the competition.

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For the comps we go to, most of the time the gym only gets OUR score. Not everyone else's. We don't know where the other teams in the division scored. Only a couple of comps actually release that and most of the time it's just their overall score. No breakdown. I think THIS is the issue here.


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[TheVipersMom]

For the comps we go to, most of the time the gym only gets OUR score. Not everyone else's. We don't know where the other teams in the division scored. Only a couple of comps actually release that and most of the time it's just their overall score. No breakdown. I think THIS is the issue here.


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I agree that would be a bigger problem.

For us though in our experience for day 2 events,
We usually get our score shortly after our performance so the coaches give that out.

Then the division is usually posted, somewhere so you can see everyone's scores and know places. Then at event close (or day 1 division close) we are given the breakdown for everyone in our division. I want to say I've seen them all year I don't actually think we haven't ever not gotten them. Not sure if that's because we only do Varsity events but we have had them every time.
If not our coaches/ owners would just go ask for them but again maybe it's because we do varsity only. We have not had a problem, but if they didn't give them that would definitely be a problem so I see where this could be an issue.



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[BlueCat]

In a perfect world, the full scores would be released to the public. I have spoken to many an event producer to try to make the scoring much more public than it is.

Some EPs release scoring breakdowns to the coaches only. If an event producer chooses to give those specifically to coaches only, we generally will respect their wishes and not share it past our coaching staff. (Even if we personally believe that all of it should be public.). I don't feel it is necessarily our place to share that information further than the EP intends. I'm not suggesting that other gyms are doing anything wrong by passing it along further, we just (typically) choose not to.

 

[AndyT_T]

A lack of transparency shows a lack of confidence in your judges and your judging methods.
I've seen a team hit Day 1 and day 2 and have a 5 point (Yes, 5 point) drop between the two days that cost them a summit bid. The coaches were furious (rightfully so) and went to the judges to ask where the hell those points went and they literally DIDNT HAVE AN ANSWER.
I've heard similar stories from coaches all over the country. It's unacceptable.