All-Star Discriminatory Law In Indiana

[kristenthegreat]

I honestly support the right of a business to refuse service. If you walk into my business and act like a complete BLEEP then ya get the heck out and I won't be serving you! People honestly treat people in the service industry like second class citizens all because they have the notion that the customer is always right. :rolleyes: But what I can't understand is how that woman in Florida looked at 2 people who were obviously incredibly happy and excited and wanted to have your flowers at their big celebration and turn them down. Way to take something that is supposed to be amazing for someone else and rain all over it. Selfish people

That's the thing- I can refuse to serve someone alcohol because they're drunk. I can't refuse to serve someone because they're Christian. Two separate issues. Also- picking and choosing your religious issues does NOT a good person make.

 

[Bling it On]

And I just found this on Facebook.....
INDIANAPOLIS: First woman in US sentenced for killing a fetus - WNCN: News, Weather, Raleigh, Durham, Fayetteville


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[SL&AM]

And I just found this on Facebook.....
INDIANAPOLIS: First woman in US sentenced for killing a fetus - WNCN: News, Weather, Raleigh, Durham, Fayetteville


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is a lot to that story. She physically put the baby in a dumpster. What I think her case highlights more than anything is how religion can be suffocating---she was young, scared, and terrified her overly religious parents would find out so she dumped the baby and ran. There is no logic or reasoning in those actions; none...while I don't agree with the sentencing at all, I can understand how the laws worked against her. She could have done just about anything else in the world than what she did and not be in the mess she is.

 

[kristenthegreat]

There is a lot to that story. She physically put the baby in a dumpster. What I think her case highlights more than anything is how religion can be suffocating---she was young, scared, and terrified her overly religious parents would find out so she dumped the baby and ran. There is no logic or reasoning in those actions; none...while I don't agree with the sentencing at all, I can understand how the laws worked against her. She could have done just about anything else in the world than what she did and not be in the mess she is.

...But the baby died within SECONDS of being born. Medical analysis confirmed it. She then went to the hospital for hemorrhaging. As far as the medical records show (which the prosecution didn't care about), even if she DID order the abortion-inducing drugs, she didn't have them in her system. She's just being punished for it happening, regardless. This is an issue that disproportionally affects women who are low-income and people of color. It's sickening.

The maternal care in this country is abominable. For all the people clamoring about abortion, maybe if we actually put more effort into making maternity less stressful, things would be better. And actually putting money into making sure they're safe/healthy when they're born.

 

[SL&AM]

...But the baby died within SECONDS of being born. Medical analysis confirmed it. She then went to the hospital for hemorrhaging. As far as the medical records show (which the prosecution didn't care about), even if she DID order the abortion-inducing drugs, she didn't have them in her system. She's just being punished for it happening, regardless. This is an issue that disproportionally affects women who are low-income and people of color. It's sickening.

The maternal care in this country is abominable. For all the people clamoring about abortion, maybe if we actually put more effort into making maternity less stressful, things would be better. And actually putting money into making sure they're safe/healthy when they're born.

I know, all of that aside---she still places a human body in a dumpster. I disagree with her punishment, I think a lot of stuff was at play---but that one piece of info is what damned her.

 

[kristenthegreat]

I know, all of that aside---she still places a human body in a dumpster. I disagree with her punishment, I think a lot of stuff was at play---but that one piece of info is what damned her.

I honestly don't know what I'd do in that situation. As awful as that is, I'm picturing the alternatives and they're so mentally scarring..

 

[Cheermom1969]

I read this article from the Washington Times. It explains the Indiana law a little more. I'm not in support of discriminating against people but it seems this law isn't what this is about and so I'm trying to read different points of view on it, not buying into hysteria based on what social media tells me.

Ultimately, the courts decide these issues and, as stated in the article, different courts see religious freedom lawsuits differently. It's typical in the legal arena. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't, depending on who hears your case.

Religious freedom laws helped Muslims, Indians - Washington Times

Honestly, for me, I don't see any religion I've ever been a part of saying it's ok to discriminate against people whose lifestyle you may not agree with. I don't understand how someone who truly loves God and lives by Jesus' teachings can say anything but, hey, I don't agree with being gay but I love you as a child of God.

 

[SL&AM]

I honestly don't know what I'd do in that situation. As awful as that is, I'm picturing the alternatives and they're so mentally scarring..

I can't picture myself in her shoes. I'm non-religious and hubby and I suffered through 5 miscarriages to have our children. Our son was our oldest gestation ally (taken out via surgery), but our last baby came out at home and I couldn't even put it in the toilet (7-8 weeks along gestation). Total TMI; but it looked like a human...an alien human, but a human. I brought it to the hospital in a Tupperware.

So, to me, the idea of using a dumpster for a 26 week old baby? Not so much. I don't even want to be at that point in my life where I consider that a viable option.

 

[kristenthegreat]

I read this article from the Washington Times. It explains the Indiana law a little more. I'm not in support of discriminating against people but it seems this law isn't what this is about and so I'm trying to read different points of view on it, not buying into hysteria based on what social media tells me.

Ultimately, the courts decide these issues and, as stated in the article, different courts see religious freedom lawsuits differently. It's typical in the legal arena. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't, depending on who hears your case.

Religious freedom laws helped Muslims, Indians - Washington Times

Honestly, for me, I don't see any religion I've ever been a part of saying it's ok to discriminate against people whose lifestyle you may not agree with. I don't understand how someone who truly loves God and lives by Jesus' teachings can say anything but, hey, I don't agree with being gay but I love you as a child of God.

That's what the FEDERAL law has done, which again, is worded much differently. And they're correct: the law as written federally came about when Native Americans were concerned about the government building highways over areas they deemed to be "sacred religious grounds." Statistically, the FEDERAL LAW AS WRITTEN has helped mostly Jews, Muslims, and Native Americans.

The trouble we're in, particularly with Indiana, Arizona, Arkansas, and Georgia (who had a law coming out which would have allowed child abuse protections if codified as 'religious behavior')- this has all come about (in my estimation) due to the Burwell v. Hobby Lobby decision. By allowing private companies the same exemptions we originally only allowed to religious institutions, and without protections for LGBT citizens in place, NOW we're in a disaster where people can you the Bible as a brick to beat people down with. All the cases listed in that article were filed FEDERALLY- meaning the government was infringing on the rights of a religious person or church (returning the eagle feathers to a Native American or allowing a Muslim to grow a beard in prison). Indiana's law as-written allows for businesses to deny services to individuals based on 'personal religious grounds'. The government can't force you to give up your religion, but you can't discriminate against others and use your "deeply held religious beliefs" as a weapon. Not kosher.

For every Atheist who thinks Christians are cracked out whackadoodles, there are religious people who think non-believers or those who don't conform to their interpretation of their religious texts are abominations who should burn in hell or be punished on earth. Jesus ate with whores, lepers, and all sorts of people.

 

[Miialovescheer]

I can't picture myself in her shoes. I'm non-religious and hubby and I suffered through 5 miscarriages to have our children. Our son was our oldest gestation ally (taken out via surgery), but our last baby came out at home and I couldn't even put it in the toilet (7-8 weeks along gestation). Total TMI; but it looked like a human...an alien human, but a human. I brought it to the hospital in a Tupperware.

So, to me, the idea of using a dumpster for a 26 week old baby? Not so much. I don't even want to be at that point in my life where I consider that a viable option.

I feel for you :( my mom's had 8 misscarriages (or maybe more i know of 8 but they can be more) and a few of them she have had to have surgery for.. But she says now that she is happy for the 4 healthy (sort off) kids that shev'e got and she would not trade us for anything.

 

[gofriars610]

I can't picture myself in her shoes. I'm non-religious and hubby and I suffered through 5 miscarriages to have our children. Our son was our oldest gestation ally (taken out via surgery), but our last baby came out at home and I couldn't even put it in the toilet (7-8 weeks along gestation). Total TMI; but it looked like a human...an alien human, but a human. I brought it to the hospital in a Tupperware.

I am so, so sorry for your losses. I can't even begin to imagine what you've gone through.

 

[SL&AM]

I feel for you :( my mom's had 8 misscarriages (or maybe more i know of 8 but they can be more) and a few of them she have had to have surgery for.. But she says now that she is happy for the 4 healthy (sort off) kids that shev'e got and she would not trade us for anything.

I'm so sorry for your mother's losses. We're so lucky to have our two daughter's, but after our youngest was born we made the difficult decision to use a permanent birth control option so that we could never be in the position again to go through it. Our first four were pre-CP and when we lost our son I was a wreck for almost a year. When we lost our fifth I could feel myself wanting to go backwards but had CP (she was about a year old) and had to like snap myself out. Youngest was a surprise...and by surprise I mean I went in to get more genetic counselling exactly 30 days after our loss and was told my HCG went up. Had we not been pregnant then I'm not sure I would have ever been strong enough to attempt it again. I have a genetic anomaly due to 2 years of chemotherapy so I knew going into having kids it would be hard, but nothing...and I mean nothing, could have prepared me for that. But I count myself lucky, my eldest sister lost 7...when I think of what she went through, 5 isn't so high anymore.

I am so, so sorry for your losses. I can't even begin to imagine what you've gone through.

Thank you.

 

[SL&AM]

Not that a gay couple would get pizza for a wedding, but...that aside, here's this

Indiana Pizza Restaurant Says It Wouldn't Cater a Gay Wedding, Supports Religious Freedom Law - ABC News

 

[Tator tots]

Not that a gay couple would get pizza for a wedding, but...that aside, here's this

Indiana Pizza Restaurant Says It Wouldn't Cater a Gay Wedding, Supports Religious Freedom Law - ABC News

And this is what I think the people who firmly believe that marriage is between a man and a woman are saying. Just like the florist. She didn't say they could not buy flowers from her store (they were customers before and she did business with them plenty of times). The marriage/wedding is what she did not want to participate in due to her religious beliefs.

I for one, don't care but I'm not that religious. I say let anyone marry whoever they love and I, if I owned a business, wouldn't give two hoots if it were gay/straight, whatever. But, I do believe the truly religious have rights as well and if they don't want to participate in a gay marriage, that is their choice.

 

[kristenthegreat]

I can't picture myself in her shoes. I'm non-religious and hubby and I suffered through 5 miscarriages to have our children. Our son was our oldest gestation ally (taken out via surgery), but our last baby came out at home and I couldn't even put it in the toilet (7-8 weeks along gestation). Total TMI; but it looked like a human...an alien human, but a human. I brought it to the hospital in a Tupperware.

So, to me, the idea of using a dumpster for a 26 week old baby? Not so much. I don't even want to be at that point in my life where I consider that a viable option.

PS- I meant to tell you how sorry I was for your losses. I can't imagine how difficult and painful it is.

Pregnancy, unwanted or very much wanted, is such an emotional and personal event. That's the part that scares me about becoming a parent someday.