All-Star Facility Space

[MzLyn23]

(Already posted in Coaches Thread)

Ok, so I never really got a response from many regarding starting my own program and so on... I did hear from 2 or 3 other people but no detailed info or advice. I was looking into renting mat time from another existing program that does do that from time to time but it quite expensive and after calculating any other expenses and what athletes would have to pay, its almost just worth it finding and starting up my own facility. Yes I know this is a gamble because new gyms can not guarantee a large amount of girls will go... but I have been left with not many options especially in my area. So now I have the following questions and hope that someone will please be honest with me and fill me with your knowledge... I've been doing research but these questions have been difficult to find answers too... please with a cherry on top!!!!

1- Do all cheer gyms start out at a warehouse type of space? yes I know we need ceiling height but I've come to the conclusion that to save some money I might have to sacrifice mat space (7 panels for example instead of 9 panels spring floor and get 20-24 ft ceilings) or get lower ceilings like 18 feet and more square footage.... so should I keep looking for warehouse space or is there maybe another term in the real estate world that can help me find the desired type of facility etc.

2- Does anyone have an idea of what is a good size (square footage) for starting a small program for example? I google and google and the only gyms that have their info such as square footage available on website or to the public are BIG time gyms that all have over 10,000 square feet.... yea I wish but I'm EXTREMELY realistic that I'm not there... and getting a business loan (from my parents - actually their company so its legit) will not go over well if I tell them I need 10k square feet... they actually might laugh at me...

3- I see that owning or renting your own facility is more profitable for the gym (for the first year I don't care if I'm paid or not because I do have a day job) but if I get extra coaches I need to pay them with something... I'd rather charge tuition to cover rent and salary but I keep trying to balance that type of accounting with estimated amounts and it doesn't add up... so I reach my next question: what am I not counting or what am I adding wrong... I know if I have my own facility, means more girls more teams more tuition and also having open gym and extra classes means more money coming in but there has to be something else I'm missing... (if this is a business aspect that some do not wish to address in public PLEASE PLEASE PM me!!! )

4- For now, last one, I've contact my company's insurance company and they weren't much help insurance wise... they're not specialist when it comes to gymnastics and cheerleading and those type of businesses... I've googled but haven't been able to find out exactly what type of insurance is needed, the limits, risks, etc...

I just need some help please....

Thank you!

 

[quitthedrama]

I think you have asked some good questions and have done some homework! I am just a parent, but I have a finance degree, have worked for several start up companies and owned my own small business, so take my input for what it's worth!
I would look at every available building within your desired location. Buildings deemed "office use" will likely be more expensive and will not be functional, but Retail, Industrial, Warehouse, mixed use, could all be possibilities. I think you could get away with a 7 panel spring, but you will need enough room for a tumble track, small lobby, an office, restrooms at a minimum - certainly not 10,000 s.f. but I would think you couldn't go much lower than 5,000. Go with as short term a lease as possible since you will have to personally guarantee the entire lease commitment (or you may grow so quickly you need more space!). Negotiate the rate - start with something that seems ridiculously low and negotiate from there. You will likely get a lower price per square foot than advertised and up to 3 months waived rent. Make sure you know what utilities and maintenance and all other costs are and if they will increase during the lease term.
Perhaps you can contract tumbling coaches rather than hire them outright, but staff is essential. You will not be able to run a program completely by yourself. If you have your own facility I strongly encourage you to offer as many classes, open gyms, birthday parties, camps, clinics, high school practice space, etc. I think it is far wiser to try to sublet some time from a gymnastics facility to start, but if your own space is your only option, you need to utilize that space to the max.
Expenses: Rent, security deposit, heat, electric, water (possibly, depending on location), maintenance such as snow clearing, cleaning, repairing (may or may not be covered in lease); spring floor, tumble trak, various mats, salaries and payroll taxes, liability insurance, workers comp insurance if you have 1 employee you need it), office supplies, computer, cash up front for pro shop items, cubbies, office furniture, cleaning supplies, etc. Those are what I can think of just off the top of my head.
Check in to Zurich North America for insurance. They can tell you what you should have for insurance limits and I am pretty sure they cover this type of business.
Good luck!

 

[MzLyn23]

I think you have asked some good questions and have done some homework! I am just a parent, but I have a finance degree, have worked for several start up companies and owned my own small business, so take my input for what it's worth!
I would look at every available building within your desired location. Buildings deemed "office use" will likely be more expensive and will not be functional, but Retail, Industrial, Warehouse, mixed use, could all be possibilities. I think you could get away with a 7 panel spring, but you will need enough room for a tumble track, small lobby, an office, restrooms at a minimum - certainly not 10,000 s.f. but I would think you couldn't go much lower than 5,000. Go with as short term a lease as possible since you will have to personally guarantee the entire lease commitment (or you may grow so quickly you need more space!). Negotiate the rate - start with something that seems ridiculously low and negotiate from there. You will likely get a lower price per square foot than advertised and up to 3 months waived rent. Make sure you know what utilities and maintenance and all other costs are and if they will increase during the lease term.
Perhaps you can contract tumbling coaches rather than hire them outright, but staff is essential. You will not be able to run a program completely by yourself. If you have your own facility I strongly encourage you to offer as many classes, open gyms, birthday parties, camps, clinics, high school practice space, etc. I think it is far wiser to try to sublet some time from a gymnastics facility to start, but if your own space is your only option, you need to utilize that space to the max.
Expenses: Rent, security deposit, heat, electric, water (possibly, depending on location), maintenance such as snow clearing, cleaning, repairing (may or may not be covered in lease); spring floor, tumble trak, various mats, salaries and payroll taxes, liability insurance, workers comp insurance if you have 1 employee you need it), office supplies, computer, cash up front for pro shop items, cubbies, office furniture, cleaning supplies, etc. Those are what I can think of just off the top of my head.
Check in to Zurich North America for insurance. They can tell you what you should have for insurance limits and I am pretty sure they cover this type of business.
Good luck!

I can't even thank you enough!!! I was taking notes right now in my "cheer" notebook as if I were in a college business class... This is definitely a lot of helpful information that is going to help me for sure, especially with calculating what kind of a loan I'm going to need... I hope that others will be as generous as you were with information!!!

1,000 thanks again!!!

 

[Vabel]

Currently, I coach in a gym that is seven mats, and when I was competing we practiced in a small gym for a year as well.
It affects your routine (barely ever end up on the outside mats at competition as the girls aren't used to the space), but if it's a big money saver, it wouldn't be the worst deal.
Personally, I'd aim more for ceiling height and less floor space if you need to pick between the two.

Good luck!

 

[Lazydaisytoo]

You may be able to get a short term lease in empty retail spaces which may have the required ceiling height. I remember reading here that a big name gym opened a new facility in a former Toys R Us. There are tons of empty retail shops in strip malls in my area, many with 2 story height. The bonus is that you'll already have restrooms, lighting, sound system and such installed.

 

[SL&AM]

From someone who has a CP going to more of an 'office space' building because the area lacked rentals in industrial buildings my only suggesting is not to do it. Not only were the older girl's prohibited from a lot because of the ceiling, at some point, for the gymnastic's girls it became downright dangerous. The owner's of her program were in the process of looking at building their own space last I knew. I likely would never put CP back into a program that didn't have the super high ceilings. 7 mats over 9 mats wouldn't have bothered me so much.

 

[MzLyn23]

You may be able to get a short term lease in empty retail spaces which may have the required ceiling height. I remember reading here that a big name gym opened a new facility in a former Toys R Us. There are tons of empty retail shops in strip malls in my area, many with 2 story height. The bonus is that you'll already have restrooms, lighting, sound system and such installed.

Definitely going to look into this!!! Thanks

 

[Mo' Bettah]

Here in California we have empty stores that are rented by Halloween companies short term, just for the season. Something like that might work well for a start.

 

[mamabear]

You need to talk to your potential insurance and also check with the town you are looking at for regulations before you find a space. When our rec program was looking to expand, I helped with the process, and found out that there were some regulations that others mandated, like ceiling height (insurance) and number of bathrooms needed (town rule). FTR- I am in NJ too.

We looked everywhere! I drove around and explored nearly every strip mall and industrial park. You will be suprized at what you might find :)

 

[caitlyn_the_camille]

I started out tumbling at a small gym that was an old grocery store (or pharmacy, maybe), and it worked just fine. Good ceiling height, plenty of space, and a ton of lighting. And the coach wasn't paying an arm and a leg for rent because how many people really wanted that building space anyway? The gym I'm at now is an old ACE hardware, for the same reason. And I think I saw on here where the Top Gun Orlando gym is in an old Toys R Us, and it is very nice.
Experience: never owned a gym before, so my advice isn't great. Good luck to you though!

 

[daniellem217]

Just to throw in my two cents... the gym I currently coach at is only 7 panels (if that), while my team fits on it well, at every competition we have struggled during the tumbling section because the kids get thrown off by the two extra panels, so they are constantly ending their passes too early, and getting in the way of the other athletes, causing near collisions, or kids are having to omit their pass altogether. Now, I will also add that the facility I currently coach at has lower/sloped ceilings. There is a huge structural beam that comes about a foot and a half lower than the ceiling right smack dab in the middle of our floor space. One of my kids actually hit it with her hand during her kick full basket last night. Needless to say... we will not be there much longer.

 

[MzLyn23]

Just to throw in my two cents... the gym I currently coach at is only 7 panels (if that), while my team fits on it well, at every competition we have struggled during the tumbling section because the kids get thrown off by the two extra panels, so they are constantly ending their passes too early, and getting in the way of the other athletes, causing near collisions, or kids are having to omit their pass altogether. Now, I will also add that the facility I currently coach at has lower/sloped ceilings. There is a huge structural beam that comes about a foot and a half lower than the ceiling right smack dab in the middle of our floor space. One of my kids actually hit it with her hand during her kick full basket last night. Needless to say... we will not be there much longer.

ouch and thank you for the info... Thats exactly my fear... I keep thinking baskets and tumbling passes... my head is running in 100 directions....lol so much info but so glad I'm getting answers because not "everyone" including people I know want to share information... maybe fear of competition when to me its not about competing with owners of other gyms... Its about having something I can call my own... Thanks so much everyone so far who has answered and given me advice!!!

ETA: the bottom half after 100 directions... got cut off accidentally...

 

[daniellem217]

@mslyn23 i know how you feel. i think i commented on your previous post about possibly opening a new gym, and I am in the same boat as you. The problem is that in my area (30 min radius) there are about 5 all-star gyms. All smaller gyms, some more known than others, so we are kind of at the point of competing for athletes. While I am not a coach that will beg and borrow for an athlete, I know many who do do that. My driving force is that I plan on doing this for decades to come, so I plan to be around for quite some time. Like you, I did the math, and figured that if i was renting mat space from a gymnastics gym, it almost equals how much I would be paying to lease a place out per month, and I would rather have my money go towards my team rather than just throwing it away. Sorry I am rambling, (and for the grammatical/spelling errors) its 1 am and I am beyond tired! haha.

 

[MzLyn23]

@mslyn23 i know how you feel. i think i commented on your previous post about possibly opening a new gym, and I am in the same boat as you. The problem is that in my area (30 min radius) there are about 5 all-star gyms. All smaller gyms, some more known than others, so we are kind of at the point of competing for athletes. While I am not a coach that will beg and borrow for an athlete, I know many who do do that. My driving force is that I plan on doing this for decades to come, so I plan to be around for quite some time. Like you, I did the math, and figured that if i was renting mat space from a gymnastics gym, it almost equals how much I would be paying to lease a place out per month, and I would rather have my money go towards my team rather than just throwing it away. Sorry I am rambling, (and for the grammatical/spelling errors) its 1 am and I am beyond tired! haha.

I'm almost in the exact same issue. I live in an area that is considered somewhat middle to lower class and someone had given me the advice that if I would put a gym in this area I wouldn't make any money that many gyms that have tried were not successful and eventually either went bankrupt or had to move to another county where there is heavier competition. I keep thinking that it would be easier for me to start in this area in order to recruit possible athletes stay here for a year maybe two years and then move to a county next to this one where although there are other gyms I will already have a following because that is what I am fearful of not, having a following... I don't want to start in an area where there is a gym 20 minutes in every direction because than I am competing for athletes and sometimes athletes from my area are more hesitant to try a gym or go to a gym that may be 20 minutes away or 30 minutes away. It's just harder than I thought or maybe not but I get the feeling like certain persons don't want to push me in the right direction. :-(