All-Star Interesting Injury Prevention Gear Site

[katstat1]

My knee always dislocates too! Since I was like 4 my doctors told me to keep active and keep my legs strong but it still happens. I wear a big prescription knee brace with metal pieces in it but it's really hard to cheer in, it doesn't allow me to crouch down to stunt or do much in the dance. I've started to only wear it for practices and just hope for the best at competitions. So I'm just wondering what your cp does to help her knees?

Curious if you had success with your heavy duty brace. She would probably hate that.

She had had several dislocations sporadically over the last few years, but last nov/dec it was awful. She went back to PT and has continued the exercises now at home. She used to wear knee braces (Shield or Donjoy) but she still dislocated in those. PT showed us the McConnell taping method so Jan-April we did that along with braces. We also got the custom orthotics because we figured pronation was contributing. After Worlds she has just been using taping method. She has had 2 dislocations (one on each) in July and sept, but that is so much better than last year. I really don't know if the taping does much. I think the exercises and the orthotics probably are the biggest help. I'm always worried about it happening, especially during comp season, but not sure what else to do. And it seems like everytime I talk about it, it happens so let's hope that's not the case this time.

 

[CheerBank]

I have to wear my custom orthodics in my shoes or else I can not do anything. Even running is scary to me without them. I'm just curious as to how to orthodics they have will work for everyone, as there are different levels to flat footedness. My feet are so flat that my entire foot is on the ground when I stand, 0 arch at all. Would these orthodics help me? (Not that I would ever switch, just hypothetical)

Probably not even close to what you need.

 

[rrhhiannon]

Curious if you had success with your heavy duty brace. She would probably hate that.

She had had several dislocations sporadically over the last few years, but last nov/dec it was awful. She went back to PT and has continued the exercises now at home. She used to wear knee braces (Shield or Donjoy) but she still dislocated in those. PT showed us the McConnell taping method so Jan-April we did that along with braces. We also got the custom orthotics because we figured pronation was contributing. After Worlds she has just been using taping method. She has had 2 dislocations (one on each) in July and sept, but that is so much better than last year. I really don't know if the taping does much. I think the exercises and the orthotics probably are the biggest help. I'm always worried about it happening, especially during comp season, but not sure what else to do. And it seems like everytime I talk about it, it happens so let's hope that's not the case this time.

I played rugby and soccer up until last summer and it really helped when I was running, but for rugby I had to remove the metal anyway, it was still pretty heavy duty though! I always wear it to the gym too and it holds my knee solid. Last year the most tumbling I did was a dive roll because of a mental block, but now that I'm working on more I find it hard with the big brace because I feel like the metal absorbs the bounce and I have a hard time keeping up momentum.

At my last appointment my doctor mentioned a surgery where they will build me another ligament and shorten the ones I have, the one they want to add will go from knee cap and pull to the inside of my leg. She said most people harden up around 20 so I have to wait and see if that helps, I'm 19 now.

 

[catlady]

Thanks, that is kind of what I thought. Cp has bad knees as it is, chronic dislocations. She does exercises to help strenghthen, but still happens sometimes. We got custom orthotics for her cheer shoes because she does pronate inward. I find this all very interesting. I will have to watch and see how she lands her tumbling, hopefully she isn't doing this.

My knee always dislocates too! Since I was like 4 my doctors told me to keep active and keep my legs strong but it still happens. I wear a big prescription knee brace with metal pieces in it but it's really hard to cheer in, it doesn't allow me to crouch down to stunt or do much in the dance. I've started to only wear it for practices and just hope for the best at competitions. So I'm just wondering what your cp does to help her knees?

Youngest cp's knee dislocates all the time and is level 1 , the doctor said it usually happens from planting the foot and twisting (same with acl tears). She wears the Donjoy patella stabilizing brace:

The dr. took out the side metal pieces, and there is a gel block that is on the inside that prevents the knee cap from coming over. Her orthopedic surgeon told her it is from having hypermobile joints and as she gets older she'll grow out of it, but said if she chips off anymore bone, he'll stabilize the knee surgically. He said the surgery can cause its own issues though. He, also, had her in the one below for awhile and she hated it:

 

[luv2cheer92]

finally someone who speaks my language!!! cheer+ athletic training, that's hard to come by (insert heart eye emoji here)

and might I add, this, this is why I advocate for ATCs in cheer gyms... or at least coaches that know how to say NO to athletes trying to progress themselves without proper technique

Or PT's
But seriously, that would be my dream job. I know I've said it on here before, but if any gym owners out there want to hire someone in 1.5 years, you know who to call

 

[Julia Cole]

Youngest cp's knee dislocates all the time and is level 1 , the doctor said it usually happens from planting the foot and twisting (same with acl tears). She wears the Donjoy patella stabilizing brace:

The dr. took out the side metal pieces, and there is a gel block that is on the inside that prevents the knee cap from coming over. Her orthopedic surgeon told her it is from having hypermobile joints and as she gets older she'll grow out of it, but said if she chips off anymore bone, he'll stabilize the knee surgically. He said the surgery can cause its own issues though. He, also, had her in the one below for awhile and she hated it:

I'm actually wearing the first one right now and I've had it for about a year, mine seems to not work anymore.. My kneecap slides even more with the brace and causes lots of pain so I am going back soon..

 

[catlady]

I'm actually wearing the first one right now and I've had it for about a year, mine seems to not work anymore.. My kneecap slides even more with the brace and causes lots of pain so I am going back soon..

She is on her second brace and hers lasted about a year before she began complaining it was too loose. My guess is the elastic just breaks down with sweat and movement. Her orthopedic said our insurance will pay for one once a year, so hopefully, yours will too, if that's the one you like.

 

[ShoWStoppeR]

Thanks, that is kind of what I thought. Cp has bad knees as it is, chronic dislocations. She does exercises to help strenghthen, but still happens sometimes. We got custom orthotics for her cheer shoes because she does pronate inward. I find this all very interesting. I will have to watch and see how she lands her tumbling, hopefully she isn't doing this.

More often than not, the culprit of chronic patella dislocations is a weak VMO. It's the little tear drop shaped muscle that sits above the patella medially. It is part of the Quadriceps muscle and plays a very important role in patella tracking, aka how the knee cap moves up and down. Sometimes if its weak enough, you won't even see it present in some athletes, more commonly in females. It's important to remember that everything around the effected joint plays a role. My kids always ask me why for an ankle injury they are doing hip and knee exercises as well, and I explain to them that they are all related in the kinetic chain. They found it fascinating that weak hips could be the reason for their chronic ankle instability.
It's important to focus on strength and flexibility when it comes to rehabbing the area. So for her knee, make sure she is stretching everything around the joint- calves, hamstrings, quads and hip flexors, IT band, piriformis, and even the back. the foam roller will be her best friend. It hurts so good but it does the trick. Balance exercises are good for stability. I'm sure you have some sort of unstable surface for her to work with. I honestly get creative at the school because I don't have that many resources. Start her with single leg balance stuff on the ground, and as that gets easy, progress to something a little bit more wobbly, a coach cushion for example. I try and make my balance exercises sport specific, for example with my soccer players I'll have them head the ball to me while they do it or kick/knee the ball on their opposite leg. As far as strengthening, alot of athletes get this misconception that they need to power lift a crap ton of weight. I tell my athletes start with body weight exercises and go from there. They are more often than not surprised to find themselves sore after the most basic rehab exercises. I focus alot on the hips when doing knee rehab/strengthening. Some of my favorites include ball squeezes, clams, hip haters, single leg cup stacks, whale tails, monster walks, and creek crossers. I just use a theraband, change the color for difficulty based on their progress. I'll try my best to explain them. Side lying clams- lay on your side, knees bent on top of each other. you bring the knee on top up, like a clam opening, hence the name. ball squeezes you simply put a ball in between their legs while laying down, legs bent with feet on the table. tell them to squeeze the ball in, then relax without dropping the ball. Once that's too easy I move to the wall and have them do wall sits and squeeze, and then add a ball behind the back while doing wall sits to increase difficulty. hip haters... my kids LOVE these and by love I mean despise lol you do them side lying, and you bring the top leg up (like a straight leg raise except you are on your side), back in hip extension, then forward, and back down. make sure they are keeping their body/hips in alignment and not letting them sink back or slouch forward when they do them. When those get easy enough I normally add ankle weights, or make them do them in a side plank, that way you get the core too. Single leg cup stacks is pretty self explanatory, you have them stand on the "bad" leg, and pyramid stack cups, standing far enough back that they have to reach into it. Once that gets easy, I have them move to a more unstable surface and/or do squats in between each cup. Whale tails, sounds silly I know. This may be harder to find a surface to do them on at home, but I have them lay on their belly on the treatment table with their lower body hanging off the table. They then bring their legs up and out an back down. This one is hard to explain lol but it works the glutes really well. Monster walks, you can do without a band for starters, but you put the band around their legs right above the knee cap and then they do walking squats, if that makes sense. Creek crossers you move the band down around the ankle, and have them walk and as they walk they go up and out. Some other exercises I do for knees are single leg calf raise step ups-I have them step up on the plyo box, do a calf raise, and come down. once that gets too easy I add weight, ramp squats- get them in an incline position/heels up. I normally do this on my ramp board against the wall so they can control their movement. It's a great eccentric exercise. Squats are a biggie in activating the VMO, so any squat variation will be beneficial, so long as they have good form. Hamstring bridges- They are much similar to a regular bridge you do to stretch your back, but you do it without your arms so its all in the hamstrings. have them lay down, legs bent, feet on the table, then bring the butt up, hold for a second or two, and relax. once that gets too easy, you can add a ball between the legs, have them kick a single leg out, or use a physio ball and put their feet on it and have them pull the ball in toward them.


Okay, sorry, I just get really excited about these things lol I know it's very long winded and you probably won't even read it all, but I figured I would put my 2 cents in

 

[cheermuse]

Just educated that CP old ankle sprains (mulitple) over the years contributed to her now Hip pain!

 

[katstat1]

More often than not, the culprit of chronic patella dislocations is a weak VMO. It's the little tear drop shaped muscle that sits above the patella medially. It is part of the Quadriceps muscle and plays a very important role in patella tracking, aka how the knee cap moves up and down. Sometimes if its weak enough, you won't even see it present in some athletes, more commonly in females. It's important to remember that everything around the effected joint plays a role. My kids always ask me why for an ankle injury they are doing hip and knee exercises as well, and I explain to them that they are all related in the kinetic chain. They found it fascinating that weak hips could be the reason for their chronic ankle instability.
It's important to focus on strength and flexibility when it comes to rehabbing the area. So for her knee, make sure she is stretching everything around the joint- calves, hamstrings, quads and hip flexors, IT band, piriformis, and even the back. the foam roller will be her best friend. It hurts so good but it does the trick. Balance exercises are good for stability. I'm sure you have some sort of unstable surface for her to work with. I honestly get creative at the school because I don't have that many resources. Start her with single leg balance stuff on the ground, and as that gets easy, progress to something a little bit more wobbly, a coach cushion for example. I try and make my balance exercises sport specific, for example with my soccer players I'll have them head the ball to me while they do it or kick/knee the ball on their opposite leg. As far as strengthening, alot of athletes get this misconception that they need to power lift a crap ton of weight. I tell my athletes start with body weight exercises and go from there. They are more often than not surprised to find themselves sore after the most basic rehab exercises. I focus alot on the hips when doing knee rehab/strengthening. Some of my favorites include ball squeezes, clams, hip haters, single leg cup stacks, whale tails, monster walks, and creek crossers. I just use a theraband, change the color for difficulty based on their progress. I'll try my best to explain them. Side lying clams- lay on your side, knees bent on top of each other. you bring the knee on top up, like a clam opening, hence the name. ball squeezes you simply put a ball in between their legs while laying down, legs bent with feet on the table. tell them to squeeze the ball in, then relax without dropping the ball. Once that's too easy I move to the wall and have them do wall sits and squeeze, and then add a ball behind the back while doing wall sits to increase difficulty. hip haters... my kids LOVE these and by love I mean despise lol you do them side lying, and you bring the top leg up (like a straight leg raise except you are on your side), back in hip extension, then forward, and back down. make sure they are keeping their body/hips in alignment and not letting them sink back or slouch forward when they do them. When those get easy enough I normally add ankle weights, or make them do them in a side plank, that way you get the core too. Single leg cup stacks is pretty self explanatory, you have them stand on the "bad" leg, and pyramid stack cups, standing far enough back that they have to reach into it. Once that gets easy, I have them move to a more unstable surface and/or do squats in between each cup. Whale tails, sounds silly I know. This may be harder to find a surface to do them on at home, but I have them lay on their belly on the treatment table with their lower body hanging off the table. They then bring their legs up and out an back down. This one is hard to explain lol but it works the glutes really well. Monster walks, you can do without a band for starters, but you put the band around their legs right above the knee cap and then they do walking squats, if that makes sense. Creek crossers you move the band down around the ankle, and have them walk and as they walk they go up and out. Some other exercises I do for knees are single leg calf raise step ups-I have them step up on the plyo box, do a calf raise, and come down. once that gets too easy I add weight, ramp squats- get them in an incline position/heels up. I normally do this on my ramp board against the wall so they can control their movement. It's a great eccentric exercise. Squats are a biggie in activating the VMO, so any squat variation will be beneficial, so long as they have good form. Hamstring bridges- They are much similar to a regular bridge you do to stretch your back, but you do it without your arms so its all in the hamstrings. have them lay down, legs bent, feet on the table, then bring the butt up, hold for a second or two, and relax. once that gets too easy, you can add a ball between the legs, have them kick a single leg out, or use a physio ball and put their feet on it and have them pull the ball in toward them.


Okay, sorry, I just get really excited about these things lol I know it's very long winded and you probably won't even read it all, but I figured I would put my 2 cents in

Thanks! I'm pretty sure she has done many of those at one time or another. Mostly now she uses a band thing closed in a door and moves her leg away from door, have no idea what that is called, but does them in every direction so 4 ways per leg. She also does squats and some one leg balance squat thing where she reaches down to floor. She does something standing on a pillow too, but don't remember what. Still hoping once she stops growing her muscles will stay caught up with her a little more.

 

[CheerBank]

Just educated that CP old ankle sprains (mulitple) over the years contributed to her now Hip pain!

Former cp dealing with this now. Ankle has been surgically repaired but having intermittent hip issues.

 

[catlady]

@ShoWStoppeR @katstat1 that's really interesting, I assumed most were caused by hypermobility since that is cp's issue. I know they used to use bands and weights for cp, but stopped using them the last time stating they have learned you can hyperextend what was already hyperextending. They did the Beighton testing on her the last time she dislocated:
Hypermobility Syndromes Association » Beighton Score

 

[CheerOnMom]

Cp and non-cp both wear non-prescription sports orthotics in their cheer sneakers/cleats all the time to give their feet proper positioning and weight displacement as most of the cheer shoes and cleats do not provide that at all. Non-cp actually wears them in all his shoes.

The ACL Tube...I defer to @CEA_ATC 's explanation above. I could see someone wearing it during recovery from injury but not as being preventative.

CP has had too many feet issues to name over her short span of life almost 11 and now in her 8th yr of cheer. She isn't knock-kneed but she does walk on the insides of her feet. So several podiatrist visits later and hundreds of dollars later too [emoji20]they designed her some cheer/gymnastic style orthotics. She wears them to EVERY practice and the non prescription ones in her school shoes and we have seen at least a 75% improvement with her feet issues. [emoji106][emoji4]


CheerOnMom

 

[CEA_ATC]

@ShoWStoppeR @katstat1 that's really interesting, I assumed most were caused by hypermobility since that is cp's issue. I know they used to use bands and weights for cp, but stopped using them the last time stating they have learned you can hyperextend what was already hyperextending. They did the Beighton testing on her the last time she dislocated:
Hypermobility Syndromes Association » Beighton Score

Has she ever dislocated anything other than patellas? Just wondering about something I had with a former athlete who had something else going on... But she would have had other hyper mobility/dislocation issues (other joints involved)

 

[catlady]

Has she ever dislocated anything other than patellas? Just wondering about something I had with a former athlete who had something else going on... But she would have had other hyper mobility/dislocation issues (other joints involved)

Her elbows used to dislocate quite a bit, but that hasn't happened since she was about 7-8 years old. If you have her extend her arms, they appear to bend slightly backwards. The PT said she is, also, going to be prone to sprains because he noticed when she sat she would bend her feet underneath her (top of her foot on the ground) and bow her ankles outward. Her hips will pop in and out of place if she stands putting her weight to one side or the other. Do you mind me asking what was going on with the former athlete?