All-Star New Scoring For Tosses

[Lovemyoagirl]

I have a question for all the experts out there regarding the new Varsity scoring system for tosses. CP and I try make sure that we understand the rules, scoring system, and score sheet so that we know where her team's routine stands compared to others. We are a bit confused about tosses, however. The documentation indicates that for tosses to be scored in the "Max" range, it needs to performed by the full team "with or without front spots" plus one additional toss. In the high range tosses need to be performed by the full team "with or without front spots." What confuses us is the statement about front spots. Does this mean that tosses that have front spots score the same as those without, all other things being equal? Can every toss group have a front spot with no reduction in score? What if the team is reducing the number of toss groups it has in order to have front spots? Does that still mean the "full team" is participating in the toss, and thus can score in the max range? Any clarification would be helpful. Thanks!

 

[Cheeranswers]

i believe it would be the same as stunts, in regards to ratios. you can have front spots sure, but if you have 5 groups all having a front spot, then thats an extra group that could be doing the stunt/toss as well, so you wouldn't score the same as a team doing the same stunt/basket with an extra group and no front spots. my guess for the "with or without front spots" is that say you had a team of 21, had 5 baskets, but one had a front spot, you're still doing the max groups. its when you COULD have another group but don't that you start ranging lower.

(dont quote me on this.. it could be totally wrong its just my interpretation of the rules)

 

[CoachMandiCF]

I have a question for all the experts out there regarding the new Varsity scoring system for tosses. CP and I try make sure that we understand the rules, scoring system, and score sheet so that we know where her team's routine stands compared to others. We are a bit confused about tosses, however. The documentation indicates that for tosses to be scored in the "Max" range, it needs to performed by the full team "with or without front spots" plus one additional toss. In the high range tosses need to be performed by the full team "with or without front spots." What confuses us is the statement about front spots. Does this mean that tosses that have front spots score the same as those without, all other things being equal? Can every toss group have a front spot with no reduction in score? What if the team is reducing the number of toss groups it has in order to have front spots? Does that still mean the "full team" is participating in the toss, and thus can score in the max range? Any clarification would be helpful. Thanks!

On tossing, if you have 16 on the team and you only throw 3 tosses in squad element and all 3 have fronts, you'd not max as you should throw 4 to use all athletes. If you have 14 on the team you can throw three tosses and have 2 front spots. You want to use the maximum number of athletes.

 

[uhhlyssa01]

Exactly what the two people above said. 4 people minimum are needed to make a basket group, if after forming your groups you have people leftover, but there aren't enough extra people to make an additional group (3 people or less), they can front spot the existing groups without receiving a lower score.

Essentially it means if two teams throw the maximum amount of tosses they physically can in the same sequence, Team 1 uses their extra kids to front spot/Team 2 has no front spots on any groups, then both of those teams will receive the exact same score.

ETA: This is for the Varsity version of the Unified only. On the Jam Brands side, a team that does not use front spots would be scored higher than a team that does.

 

[FlexyTumblerMom]

So if you have a team of 15 and throw 3 baskets all w/ front spots, you get the same score as a team of 14, 13 and 12 all throwing 3 baskets (even though those smaller teams would have some front spotless baskets and you wouldn't). But when you have a team of 16, you need to throw 4 baskets to get full score - and the same count of 4 would be needed for teams of 17, 18 and 19. That's interesting - it makes the sweet spot for total team counts at 15 and 19 - at least in the "small" team divisions. Am I understanding it correctly? So a formula would be total number on team/4, round down. Haha.

Some of the team sizes at CP's gym make a little more sense to me now if all of this is so. A lot of them are 18 or 19 people and I was always wondering why they just wouldn't add an extra person when they can do the tumbling - this maybe would be why ;););).

Of course, I do wonder some why all the top Worlds teams like Smoed and Top Gun always have the full 20, 36, etc. members? Aren't they essentially making their routines harder than they need to be to get the full points? Or are there other advantages to having a full squad in other areas besides stunts?

Also, taking it further - in a Jam brands comp it sounds like the sweet spot teams, where one could score the highest by doing all their tosses sans front spots, would be the 12, 16 and 20 sizes, cause a team of 13 throwing 3 baskets would score lower than a team of 12 throwing 3 baskets.

Do other stunt group things work this way too? Like elite stunt groups, etc.? I guess that would also get confusing if you went to both Jam and Varisty comps - I wonder if some teams avoid Jam competitions because of these differences? Or is it just a minor difference in score that we are talking about?

Sorry for the long post, but I just find all this VERY interesting - haha!

 

[NJ Coach]

It's all about getting into range. On the Varsity version, a team with front spots, and a team without will both get into range. That doesn't mean they will both score the same, but they'll both be in the same range.

 

[TealShades]

So if you have a team of 15 and throw 3 baskets all w/ front spots, you get the same score as a team of 14, 13 and 12 all throwing 3 baskets (even though those smaller teams would have some front spotless baskets and you wouldn't). But when you have a team of 16, you need to throw 4 baskets to get full score - and the same count of 4 would be needed for teams of 17, 18 and 19. That's interesting - it makes the sweet spot for total team counts at 15 and 19 - at least in the "small" team divisions. Am I understanding it correctly? So a formula would be total number on team/4, round down. Haha.

Some of the team sizes at CP's gym make a little more sense to me now if all of this is so. A lot of them are 18 or 19 people and I was always wondering why they just wouldn't add an extra person when they can do the tumbling - this maybe would be why ;););).

Of course, I do wonder some why all the top Worlds teams like Smoed and Top Gun always have the full 20, 36, etc. members? Aren't they essentially making their routines harder than they need to be to get the full points? Or are there other advantages to having a full squad in other areas besides stunts?

Also, taking it further - in a Jam brands comp it sounds like the sweet spot teams, where one could score the highest by doing all their tosses sans front spots, would be the 12, 16 and 20 sizes, cause a team of 13 throwing 3 baskets would score lower than a team of 12 throwing 3 baskets.

Do other stunt group things work this way too? Like elite stunt groups, etc.? I guess that would also get confusing if you went to both Jam and Varisty comps - I wonder if some teams avoid Jam competitions because of these differences? Or is it just a minor difference in score that we are talking about?

Sorry for the long post, but I just find all this VERY interesting - haha!

those teams you mentioned have no front spots in baskets at least from what I remember. Its not about having smaller numbers compared to maxing out on size. It's about ratio as njcoach said.

 

[uhhlyssa01]

So if you have a team of 15 and throw 3 baskets all w/ front spots, you get the same score as a team of 14, 13 and 12 all throwing 3 baskets (even though those smaller teams would have some front spotless baskets and you wouldn't). But when you have a team of 16, you need to throw 4 baskets to get full score - and the same count of 4 would be needed for teams of 17, 18 and 19. That's interesting - it makes the sweet spot for total team counts at 15 and 19 - at least in the "small" team divisions. Am I understanding it correctly? So a formula would be total number on team/4, round down. Haha.

Some of the team sizes at CP's gym make a little more sense to me now if all of this is so. A lot of them are 18 or 19 people and I was always wondering why they just wouldn't add an extra person when they can do the tumbling - this maybe would be why ;););).

Of course, I do wonder some why all the top Worlds teams like Smoed and Top Gun always have the full 20, 36, etc. members? Aren't they essentially making their routines harder than they need to be to get the full points? Or are there other advantages to having a full squad in other areas besides stunts?

Also, taking it further - in a Jam brands comp it sounds like the sweet spot teams, where one could score the highest by doing all their tosses sans front spots, would be the 12, 16 and 20 sizes, cause a team of 13 throwing 3 baskets would score lower than a team of 12 throwing 3 baskets.

Do other stunt group things work this way too? Like elite stunt groups, etc.? I guess that would also get confusing if you went to both Jam and Varisty comps - I wonder if some teams avoid Jam competitions because of these differences? Or is it just a minor difference in score that we are talking about?

Sorry for the long post, but I just find all this VERY interesting - haha!

Not exactly. On the Jam scoresheet a team of 12 throwing 3 baskets and a team of 13 throwing 3 (without their extra person frontspotting) would both "max out" (9 out of 9) because they are both throwing the maximum number of baskets they physically can.. assuming they are throwing their 1 additional toss to get that 9 out of 9. Now if the team of 13 had their extra person front spot one of the basket groups, they would not score the same, because there is additional assistance on that basket. A team of 12 or 16 can't use front spots if they want to get the max score, so I can see why Jam would ask odd number teams (13, 17, 19, etc) to do the same.

While the Varsity and Jam scoresheet are very very similar, Jam is a little bit harder to get into higher ranges than Varsity's is. Some coach's strategies have actually been to choreograph to the Jam version of the scoresheet since many programs compete at both, that way when they attend a Jam event they are doing what they need to get into the highest ranges possible, and then when they go to a Varsity event they are actually doing more than what is asked on the Varsity scoresheet.

 

[Lovemyoagirl]

Thank you for all of the responses and explanations. This is exactly what CP and I thought, we just wanted to make sure that we were interpreting the rules correctly. I appreciate it!