All-Star What's A Normal Variance In Score?

[cheer25mom]

I mean it's a balance. I would gladly take an ugly (but I'd never allow an unsafe) skill and take the hit on technique if it meant getting into the next difficulty range (majority, full team, etc.).

Exactly. Right now, the math makes sense to put it out there. Until that is no longer an option, people (not necessarily you) will keep pushing the safety boundary further and further. There has to be something that makes putting that unsafe skill on the mat no longer worth it in terms of score.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

The problem isn't that the judges give you credit for an unsafe skill. If the skill is performed it should get credit on the difficulty side of the score sheet. If its done poorly then you'll get hit on the execution side of the score sheet. If we let the judges decide if it should count or not, then that brings in a whole host of other problems concerning the subjectivity in judging of this sport.

The main problem is the fact coaches let them perform a skill they can't do safely. Also as big a problem is the parents that want Suzie on a level 3 team even though she should be level 2 or even 1, more than they want her to be safe. Fix those 2 problems and you'll stop seeing unsafe tumbling and the judges will never have to choose what should count.

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This took me back to the book "The Matheny Manifesto"

With the exception of those very few parents who see their role as the "silent supporter" which is what it should be, parents ruin virtually all children's activities.

 

[Michael White]

Exactly. Right now, the math makes sense to put it out there. Until that is no longer an option, people (not necessarily you) will keep pushing the safety boundary further and further. There has to be something that makes putting that unsafe skill on the mat no longer worth it in terms of score.

The only way I could see this working is "credentialing" an athlete for a tumbling skill. That'd be a headache.

 

[catlady]

@OldskoolKYcheercoach you're right, it is not always the coaches fault. I guess I feel judges have the most power to make the "say a prayer and chuck it" mentality to stop. Unfortunately, there are many parents that tell their kids, "I'm not paying for level 1" or "I'm not paying for such 'n such level, again" and I'm sure many gym owners then feel if they have a level 1 or don't place repeat level athletes on a higher level, they'll lose business. I most certainly do not have the answer but, I definitely do not interpret unsafe or under rotated as "complete" or a "skill".:(

 

[XtremeWpg]

Keep in mind that doing skills just gets you into the range. So you can do whats required in the scariest, sketchiest way, and score at the bottom of a high range.

I judge building skills only and I'm forced into giving teams a high range for difficulty (low high range) and a 5.0 on quantity, then I'm handing out 3.6s in technique like candy at a parade. Take the hit, go down to a 4.0 in difficulty from a 4.5 and get get a 4.6 in technique. The math works both ways.

This also comes back to coaches/programs levelling their teams appropriately. Don't be a sketch bag level 3 when you could be a good level 2.

Unfortunately, in the methodology for judging, a crappy skill still counts and you take it out on the technique score.

Think about it from a judges prospective:
You have 2 teams at Senior 4.
One team does all their stunts as releases and inversions hitting the high range - doing 6 at level skills total (2 elite)
One team does all their stunts as twisting and dismounts hitting the high range - doing 6 at level skills (2 elite)
Which one is more difficult? I tend to score the twisting and dismounting team higher in difficulty, another judge would score the releases and inversions higher. Who is right? I have no idea.

I think it's easy to say that individual judges should all score the same, but without a code of points or something telling me which elite skills are harder than other elite skills, it gets really grey and comes down to personal opinion.

 

[cheer25mom]

The only way I could see this working is "credentialing" an athlete for a tumbling skill. That'd be a headache.

A deduction system for things like incomplete rotation, bent arms and legs, head touching the mat, ect would help. This is how gymnastics handles these things.

 

[cheer25mom]

without a code of points or something telling me which elite skills are harder than other elite skills, it gets really grey and comes down to personal opinion.

this is what we need

 

[XtremeWpg]

A deduction system for things like incomplete rotation, bent arms and legs, head touching the mat, ect would help. This is how gymnastics handles these things.

I agree, however gymnastics only has to watch one athlete at a time. If you get a large level 5 and you get 30+ athletes doing a skill at once, seeing every incomplete rotation etc becomes a nightmare.

 

[cheer25mom]

I agree, however gymnastics only has to watch one athlete at a time. If you get a large level 5 and you get 30+ athletes doing a skill at once, seeing every incomplete rotation etc becomes a nightmare.

True, but its the same problem scoring tumbling technique now, trying to watch everyone

 

[fabcheer19]

I think the judging has been more out of whack this season than I have ever seen. You can practically predict what teams will get the paid bids at each comp before it starts. The EP sometimes make their bid declarations so abstract thats what the point of even having one. And when you look at the scoresheets, their is definite favortism hands down. It's unfortunate because the only gyms that will be able to survive will be the larger ones.

Don't get me wrong. There are many large gyms that have some very strong and talented athetes and incredible routines. And there are also some small gyms that do as well. There has been a HUGE difference all season thru out the country with the scores being very high at one comp and very low at another comp. The inconsistentcy makes it impossible for this to be considered a real sport in any one's eyes. And I would imagine that Varsity is ok with that. After all, it's just one huge money maker and they make all the rules.

Wouldn't you want to keep a customer who was paying you $10,000 happy and want them to be a repeat customer vs. a customer who pays you $1,000? It's all a numbers game in the end.