All-Star Worlds Finals 2012 Changes...

[flipmac]

A lot of you Americans are clearly having a very hard time seeing this topic from more than just your view point. Take a second to think what is it like from a non US teams perspective coming and competing at worlds.

Just to reiterate, US teams do have Trials to make top ten, than semi to make top 3, than finals to see if they maintain top 3... THREE opportunities to make their way to the top and prove themselves, what exactly does letting more into finals do other say they made finals and competed for a THIRD time that weekend.

Another related note, how is this any different than being more selective on who gets worlds bids in the first place. If worlds is to maintain it's prestige as the best of the best, than only the best of EACH country should make it through. just like only the best should be getting bids, not teams that just rocked up at the right comp were 12 at larges were given and only 10 eligible teams completed.

 

[BlueCat]

A lot of you Americans are clearly having a very hard time seeing this topic from more than just your view point. Take a second to think what is it like from a non US teams perspective coming and competing at worlds.

Just to reiterate, US teams do have Trials to make top ten, than semi to make top 3, than finals to see if they maintain top 3... THREE opportunities to make their way to the top and prove themselves, what exactly does letting more into finals do other say they made finals and competed for a THIRD time that weekend.

Another related note, how is this any different than being more selective on who gets worlds bids in the first place. If worlds is to maintain it's prestige as the best of the best, than only the best of EACH country should make it through. just like only the best should be getting bids, not teams that just rocked up at the right comp were 12 at larges were given and only 10 eligible teams completed.

The issue is that Worlds isn't country vs country (like Olympics or like ICU) It is gym vs gym. The gym's address should' t factor into the competition at all. The "American" teams in finals aren't representing the US. They are representing their gym. No one thinks of last year's IOC5 winner as "America", it was Top Gun. (Also, there are teams that have citizens from different countries competing together.)

Why do we have an issue with only 3 in finals? Because the 4th best team in the world should have a better opportunity than the 8th best team to end up in the top 4 at Worlds. I can certainly understand why teams would want to limit the American teams they have to face, but we just don't think that it is fair to discriminate based on geography.

 

[Coach Troy]

I just would like to say that I a so sick about the changes to finals....Top 10??? Really???
Those that know me will attest that I am a all for a system where the best of the best compete. I have been a huge opponent of having a nationals system where 2 days are guaranteed. But this is just stupid. There is EVERY YEAR lots of teams that come from behind and better their placement the next day. How can you limit finals to 10!! Who was out of the top ten last year on Saturday but then after performing well ended up there???

I understand the want to shrink finals but basically by doing this they have left out 5-10 amazing teams and all the spirit of competition that they are supposed to be promoting. THIS IS SO DUMB!!!!!

 

[not.a.guest]

when there are 60 teams...the problem isnt at worlds - its having a "world" championship where 60 teams qualify...(are there any teams that dont?)

I would say in divisions as large as small senior and small coed, where theres about 50-60 teams, there should be a top 20, or a top 15. Everywhere else, top 10.

 

[yung.STAR]

The issue is that Worlds isn't country vs country (like Olympics or like ICU) It is gym vs gym. The gym's address should' t factor into the competition at all. The "American" teams in finals aren't representing the US. They are representing their gym. No one thinks of last year's IOC5 winner as "America", it was Top Gun. (Also, there are teams that have citizens from different countries competing together.)

Why do we have an issue with only 3 in finals? Because the 4th best team in the world should have a better opportunity than the 8th best team to end up in the top 4 at Worlds. I can certainly understand why teams would want to limit the American teams they have to face, but we just don't think that it is fair to discriminate based on geography.

there are actually MANY people who do see the winner as America. yes, the gym from TG won, but they are from America, competing in one of the only divisions that have international teams in it. It has even been said many times by commentators on ESPN that America rules the division, not TG, CA, GT. the international divisions are set up this way for a reason.

 

[Deleted member 1556]

when there are 60 teams...the problem isnt at worlds - its having a "world" championship where 60 teams qualify...(are there any teams that dont?)

That's a problem for a whooooole other thread. Lol.

 

[yung.STAR]

That's a problem for a whooooole other thread. Lol.

lol im sure you already find 20 on here by now.

 

[kristenthegreat]

The thing about sm senior and sm coed is that it will really reward CONSISTENCY, unlike other divisions where you'd need to completely fall apart to not make finals (um, hello guaranteed-globe large senior!). It rewards those difficult elements IF you can hit them cleanly..something that people both in AND outside the industry can understand.

 

[BlueCat]

there are actually MANY people who do see the winner as America. yes, the gym from TG won, but they are from America, competing in one of the only divisions that have international teams in it. It has even been said many times by commentators on ESPN that America rules the division, not TG, CA, GT. the international divisions are set up this way for a reason.

Yes, they are set up to provide the non-US teams a way to have higher placements than they would if finalists were determined solely by how well the teams performed. However, just because there was "a reason" why it was set up does not automatically mean everyone agrees with it or that it is necessarily the most fair way to go.

If you feel that a gyms mailing address is relevant, why are you restricting it to country borders? Should they not have allowed both Spirit of Texas and Cheer Athletics into finals together since they are from the same state? Some states aren't as strong as Texas, how the logic different than discriminating by country?

 

[Coach Troy]

when there are 60 teams...the problem isnt at worlds - its having a "world" championship where 60 teams qualify...(are there any teams that dont?)

This is where they should have started absolutely. But now they can have their party with the 10 teams that vote at the board meetings and take all our money at the same time!!
I am usually not a conspiracy person but you just told 20+ teams thanks for showing up Saturday here is your star and thanks for the Thousands and Thousands of dollars....keep those checks rolling in.
Finals should be an honor I am all aboard that train!!! But 10 spots where is the drama of the call to the floor???
after fighting it out with 30 of the best teams of the weekend then waiting and the JOY...if you get called...or the agony followed very close by the dreams and goals for next year...
Please USASF dont do this!!!!

 

[flipmac]

The issue is that Worlds isn't country vs country (like Olympics or like ICU) It is gym vs gym. The gym's address should' t factor into the competition at all. The "American" teams in finals aren't representing the US. They are representing their gym. No one thinks of last year's IOC5 winner as "America", it was Top Gun. (Also, there are teams that have citizens from different countries competing together.)

Why do we have an issue with only 3 in finals? Because the 4th best team in the world should have a better opportunity than the 8th best team to end up in the top 4 at Worlds. I can certainly understand why teams would want to limit the American teams they have to face, but we just don't think that it is fair to discriminate based on geography.

There is no discrimination present what so ever! Firstly international teams from America receive more opportunities than any other division to prove themselves, Trials only let 10 through to semi! And I hear teams very proud they made it that far, than they get a second shot to go to the next step... Making that top ten is huge for US teams, icing on cake is going into finals and battling for first second or third cause we all know that's how US teams will place for the next couple years anyway.

Secondly this division is names INTERNATIONAL, not 14 and up level 5... IASF is subliminally labeling this as a country vs country division, even though a single gym wins...

International teams usually not even label the gyms... Is simple as America placed one two and three... Canada five and six and so on...

 

[east2westandbackagain]

Flipmac - I am totally on your side on this one. If american teams went to Europe for The Cheerleading Worlds would they still be given sooooo many chances as they are now? Why do the American teams get special treatment. It is not the other international teams fault that they U.S teams are so plentiful. If the usasf is really going to make this division fair then they need to just treat it like the other divisions. Allowing so many american teams into semi's and final's is happening just to keep them happy and coming back, I think it lack integrity and ethics on the usasf's part.

 

[ztaprincess]

Secondly this division is names INTERNATIONAL, not 14 and up level 5... IASF is subliminally labeling this as a country vs country division, even though a single gym wins...

They can easily change that name because international teams can also enter the club divisions as long as they are following the age rules. So yeah basically it is a division just like the club divisions but with different age restrictions. They really should just the name to Open Coed 5/6 and Open 5/6.

People say that it is fair that only 3 US teams get to make it to finals, but how is it fair that a team who places 12th in semis gets to go to finals when the 4th best team can't because they are from the US? If worlds is suppose to be about the best of the best, which is what many people preach (myself included) then the limit of top 3 only from each country is not allowing the best of the best to make it to finals.

 

[BlueCat]

Secondly this division is names INTERNATIONAL, not 14 and up level 5... IASF is subliminally labeling this as a country vs country division, even though a single gym wins...

International teams usually not even label the gyms... Is simple as America placed one two and three... Canada five and six and so on...

It was named that because that more closely matched the age ranges of most non-US teams.

I assure you that the vast majority of the athletes in the division are well aware of the names of the gyms when the results are announced.

Flipmac - I am totally on your side on this one. If american teams went to Europe for The Cheerleading Worlds would they still be given sooooo many chances as they are now? Why do the American teams get special treatment. It is not the other international teams fault that they U.S teams are so plentiful. If the usasf is really going to make this division fair then they need to just treat it like the other divisions. Allowing so many american teams into semi's and final's is happening just to keep them happy and coming back, I think it lack integrity and ethics on the usasf's part.

I am not following your point. If they treated "International" like the other divisions, there would typically be FAR more US teams in finals.

In my opinion, the "club" division system is by far the fairest. Once those teams arrive in Orlando, their gym's mailing address makes absolutely no difference to the results or who gets to advance. They are judged purely by their performances and ability. I can't see how that is unfair to any team.

 

[marissa.d]

Well i can see both sides of this. I cheered/lived in the states for the past 3 years and I also competed at Worlds in 2008 on a junior team (from Canada when i lived there). Looking back at the video we were NOT level 5 material, and definitely not a Worlds Calibre team (i am not saying this is true of any International teams, just using mine as an example). We made it to finals because there were only 3 Canadian junior 5 teams, and we placed 5th. Technically when someone asks me how i did at Worlds i can say "Oh yes in 2008 i was on one of the top 5 junior teams in the world!" but i know that is absolutely not true at all! I have the video which shows both Saturday and Sunday and when i see the US teams that were cut they were so much better and truly deserved it more than we did! I guess we learned that we were the second best junior 5 team in Canada, but i know that if every team competed and finals was based on the top scores, we most likely would not have even made it. I almost feel that i took 5th from someone
I 100% believe that the top scores from the division should continue on and rightfully place. If international teams want to place better, then they will have to work for it just like the US teams do. I understand that international teams may not have the facilities and opportunities like US teams, but it is still possible! Look at Bangkok! I've noticed in the past year that international teams are already realizing what they need to do not just to place higher, but to rightfully place above the US teams.