All-Star Is It The Judges Fault That There Is No Change At The Top

[GreatWhite92]

if a team has the exact same stunt sequence shouldnt the difficulty of it be scored exactly the same? that is where I see inconstancies..sure one team may have executed it better but isnt that scored somewhere else?

 

[Coach Troy]

Because that is the foundation of the question I am asking...

 

[tucknduck]

Here's a question...Is it possible to be less subjective on Day 1 in the semis where the scoring counts only for where you cheer on day 2 when the scoring really counts?

Would it be better to count the scores for both days and put a little more weight on day 2? Say like a 40/60 weight or is it just better to wipe the slate clean and only count the finals?

 

[Admin]

Here's a question...Is it possible to be less subjective on Day 1 in the semis where the scoring counts only for where you cheer on day 2 when the scoring really counts?

Would it be better to count the scores for both days and put a little more weight on day 2? Say like a 40/60 weight or is it just better to wipe the slate clean and only count the finals?

I think both days should count as to be able to reward consistency, but that's just my opinion...

 

[Mclovin]

Because that is the foundation of the question I am asking...

You originally stated that team X and team Y were identical in difficulty and execution. While I would agree many teams are equal in difficulty, I think it's execution where many teams lack. The part that I agree with you on is the subjectivity in what is considered great execution and what is not...

 

[Born2Tumble]

The reason these big name gyms keep winning is because they have the skills as well as the ability to execute them so that the scoresheet awards them the proper points. Too many small gyms or gyms who are not regularly in the top teams were throwing fulls and doubles that while they were there they were done sloppy so they weren't being awarded the same points as the WC or TG team that threw the same skills better. This year it came down to who was the cleanest. Sure there were teams who placed in the top 3 with mistakes, but they had a clean routine other then those mistakes and the difficulty they had meant those mistakes impacted their score less. If teams went out there with tshirts and shorts while performing to the same music and throwing the same routine I think 95% of the time the same teams would have places in the top 3 or won.
People on twitter were arguing over Cali and Orange because Orange outscored Cali in tumbling. While Cali threw harder skills (IMO), Orange had cleaner skills thrown so they were awards more points. These big gyms didn't get where they were by having poorly thrown routines that while they hit were sloppy, they have perfected the technique that it takes to throw clean skills.

So glad you said this. I always tell my CP that its one thing to do the skill, but its another to do it with proper technique and make it look pretty. I am always on her about tumbling, jumps, motions looking clean because i get that cleaner skills take the lead. Just wanted to say thanks for someone else saying this outside of myself. I am going to show my 9 year old these words to let her know I am not just psycho lady being hard on her LOL!

 

[Coach Troy]

I don't think it matters
I actually am a fan of it being all or nothing on day 2.

There are lots of things still to be perfected about our scoring but the bigger question is if we do all of that but just put the same people in charge of it will it matter ...

 

[MaineStar234]

So glad you said this. I always tell my CP that its one thing to do the skill, but its another to do it with proper technique and make it look pretty. I am always on her about tumbling, jumps, motions looking clean because i get that cleaner skills take the lead. Just wanted to say thanks for someone else saying this outside of myself. I am going to show my 9 year old these words to let her know I am not just psycho lady being hard on her LOL!

MY gym's coaches are constantly reminding us about clean landings and proper technique! We practice it literally all the times. It really made a difference this year for our level 3 and 4 teams, when our tumbling scored better than a lot of other teams mainly due to the technique we had that some others lacked. Tight and clean helps the score, especially if the difficulty might be lower than the competitor...

 

[tucknduck]

I think both days should count as to be able to reward consistency, but that's just my opinion...

I agree..It's worlds and consistency should be rewarded.

Here's another question...Had scoring been continuous over the two days, were the Panthers that much better than the other 3 teams who all nailed their routines and would the medalists been different?

Now from what I saw, the Panthers were great on day 2 and certainly distinguished themselves but day 1 they made costly mistakes so they didn't have a consistent weekend while a team like the Suns who just missed medaling were perfect on both days and were actually even better on day 2.

 

[xpressjag]

I'd have liked to see the scores in the senior medium division. Day 2 of the finals was quite a dogfight and if i'm not mistaken, the top 4 teams were perfect and nailed their execution. Based on a lot of the predictions, it was clear who the top 3 were being picked in this division with basically no shot for nobody else. Without knowing the scores and being somewhat of a layman and having a favorite team in this division, I wonder a little if the judges have it preset in their minds who wins based on that if everyone hits their routine like the top 4 on day 2.. At the same time, we saw the scoring on day 1 and the standings were quite different because of the flaws in some of the routines so apparently, these teams with reputations are no automatic by any stretch.

One thing for certain is that in this division, you had to be on your game and weren't going to win with any mistakes. You had to be clean and the top teams in this division were that on day 2.

Now in the senior medium coed division, there's no way they should be awarding a gold medal with a major stunt fall. Worlds should be high-risk-high reward. You score high if you execute the difficult maneuver but should pay the price when it fails.

I don't agree with your last statement in regards to teams winning or losing based on falls. You are judged on what the majority of the TEAM is doing, not what 1-2 groups are doing. Hence why many teams don't do full team tick tocks, full ups or specialty inversions in their stunt section. Sometimes your routine is so strong then you can afford a deduction and other times it doesn't work in your favor. Especially if your team lacks in a certain skill set.

 

[stuntjumptumble]

I would also like to point out that South Elite, who has never to my knowledge been in the top ten of any division, got 2nd place in medium coed this year. I was completely and totally awestruck by them this weekend!! No name gym - Silver medal at worlds!

I thought it was awesome when they took home the silver!

 

[TheUltimateFan]

I don't think it matters
I actually am a fan of it being all or nothing on day 2.

There are lots of things still to be perfected about our scoring but the bigger question is if we do all of that but just put the same people in charge of it will it matter ...

I understand your point and your question. If you always have the same panel judging subjective portions according to what they personally prefer to see (the definition of subjective), you will always have the same results and it isn't really subjective at all.

Does this become yet another portion of the scoresheet that you can target with some accuracy? Yes. Is it weighted in favor of certain 'styles', of course - it must be. Is it right or the best way to do things? I would say no because it actually suppresses creativity and international/regional uniqueness, but I would also assume that those who consistently score high in those subjective areas would certainly disagree.

 

[Allstarcesi]

I don't agree with your last statement in regards to teams winning or losing based on falls. You are judged on what the majority of the TEAM is doing, not what 1-2 groups are doing. Hence why many teams don't do full team tick tocks, full ups or specialty inversions in their stunt section. Sometimes your routine is so strong then you can afford a deduction and other times it doesn't work in your favor. Especially if your team lacks in a certain skill set.

agreed. If a team has a major fall and still wins, kudos to them for having an overall difficult, well performed and executed routine that could take a major deduction and still win it all.

 

[tucknduck]

I don't agree with your last statement in regards to teams winning or losing based on falls. You are judged on what the majority of the TEAM is doing, not what 1-2 groups are doing. Hence why many teams don't do full team tick tocks, full ups or specialty inversions in their stunt section. Sometimes your routine is so strong then you can afford a deduction and other times it doesn't work in your favor. Especially if your team lacks in a certain skill set.

1-2 groups ARE part of the team. You should be as strong as your weakest link. To me, a fall is a failed stunt in the routine and should be heavily penalized. Otherwise, scoring is subjective and the favorite teams can win all the time. being technically sound and doing the more difficult moves in the routine should be rewarded, they also should be penalized should a stunt or a difficult tumbling pass fail.

I do agree that a team so strong in their routine should have room for minor mistakes but a fall is a major failure and should be costly. The only time the stunt fall shouldn't hurt is if other teams in the same division make mistakes as well. I can see awarding a team a higher rank if a team has only one fall with high difficulty over a team who made a bunch of technical mistakes but no major fall or if the team isn't performing all the skills necessary at their level to play it safe.

 

[debbie]

if you look at their scores, they fell short in the tumbling category...

where do we find the score sheets? Are they public?