All-Star 25 Day One/75 Day 2

[USACats]

To me, prelims and finals should be weighted differently. It's hard to compare the scoring to a sport like football, which doesn't have the structure of our 2-day competitions. I absolutely hate 50/50. Yes, it rewards consistency, but it's extremely difficult to make any movement in placement on day 2, without help from other teams. So regardless of what you put out there, or how much you improve your performance, chances are, it won't matter. To me, 50/50 makes day 2 less important. I like the feeling and the pressure of day 2 being worth more. It still rewards consistency, but there's also room for movement in placements. It may diminish the value of day 1, but gives day 2 more of a finals atmosphere.

This is your quote: "So regardless of what you put out there, or how much you improve your performance, chances are, it won't matter. To me, 50/50 makes day 2 less important".
So you think that making day one worth almost nothing is the answer? Its like parents are paying all this money to have their kids compete in a 2 day event so they can let their guard down on day one becasue its not going to matter anyways and make day 2 be the deciding factor? I do agree that if it is a situation where only the best teams advance to finals it should be a clean slate but if everyone is competing 2 days the team that could hit both days should prevail over the team that can only hit their routine perfect on day 2. AND why is it okay to make mistakes on day 1 and have day 2 be the deciding factor? What if you had a amazing performance on day 1 and day 2 your team did horrible. Why is day 2 so important?

 

[newcheerdad]

I think day 2 should count more than day 1. Once you establish that, then it really is just a question of HOW much more day 2 should count. 25/75 personally seems a bit much, but I can easily accept that 2/3 of your score should come from day 2.

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[NJ Coach]

This is your quote: "So regardless of what you put out there, or how much you improve your performance, chances are, it won't matter. To me, 50/50 makes day 2 less important".
So you think that making day one worth almost nothing is the answer? Its like parents are paying all this money to have their kids compete in a 2 day event so they can let their guard down on day one becasue its not going to matter anyways and make day 2 be the deciding factor? I do agree that if it is a situation where only the best teams advance to finals it should be a clean slate but if everyone is competing 2 days the team that could hit both days should prevail over the team that can only hit their routine perfect on day 2. AND why is it okay to make mistakes on day 1 and have day 2 be the deciding factor? What if you had a amazing performance on day 1 and day 2 your team did horrible. Why is day 2 so important?

If you had an amazing performance on day 1, and bomb day 2, then those are the breaks. In a prelims/finals event, finals (in my opinion) should always be worth more. Can you hit when the pressure is on? I would prefer to go back to not everyone making day 2, but I don't think that's going to happen.

I like to see teams that are consistent throughout a competition place well. However, I also like to know that I'm never truly out of it. I like to know that I can have some control over my placement going into finals. With 50/50, chances are, my placement will stay the same unless others have issues. It's hard to make up ground. With 25/75 (or any other split) no one is out of it. Anyone can take it. There have been plenty of times that 25% is what makes the difference in the standings. Teams still need to hit both days, but you can afford a mistake on day 1 more than day2.

 

[USACats]

Okay could I just make a quick example and put this away?
Who do you think the fair winner should be? Team ABC is the winner if the scoring is 25/75. Do you agree...

Team ABC- Day one score 75 and day 2 score 96
Team DEF- Day one score 90 and day 2 score 90

Just so you know with with team ABC being Day 1 score 75 and day 2 score 96. It would be a tie is Team DEF day one score is a 90 and day 2 score is a 91.

 

[NJ Coach]

Okay could I just make a quick example and put this away?
Who do you think the fair winner should be? Team ABC is the winner if the scoring is 25/75. Do you agree...

Team ABC- Day one score 75 and day 2 score 96
Team DEF- Day one score 90 and day 2 score 90

Just so you know with with team ABC being Day 1 score 75 and day 2 score 96. It would be a tie is Team DEF day one score is a 90 and day 2 score is a 91.

If the scoring is 25/75, ABC is the winner. Nothing will ever be perfect for everyone. You go into the competition knowing what the scoring splits will be. You don't get to complain about it afterwards if it didn't work out in your favor. There are plenty of companies that offer all different types of splits, just find the ones that work for you.

 

[USACats]

If the scoring is 25/75, ABC is the winner. Nothing will ever be perfect for everyone. You go into the competition knowing what the scoring splits will be. You don't get to complain about it afterwards if it didn't work out in your favor. There are plenty of companies that offer all different types of splits, just find the ones that work for you.

Well just have to agree to disagree. For me its about whats best for the sport. Not about whats best for me or my teams. My teams have definately been one of those day 2 teams so this split will probably work great for me and my program. I just think that we are trying to add validity to our sport and I dont feel that is the way to do it. Thanks for the debate and good luck with your teams this year.

 

[NJ Coach]

Well just have to agree to disagree. For me its about whats best for the sport. Not about whats best for me or my teams. My teams have definately been one of those day 2 teams so this split will probably work great for me and my program. I just think that we are trying to add validity to our sport and I dont feel that is the way to do it. Thanks for the debate and good luck with your teams this year.

I will gladly agree to disagree with you :)

 

[notimeforthat]

so nice to see a calm mature debate on the boards!:p

 

[BlueCat]

I think my ideal split, in theory, would be 1/3, 2/3.

Next (related) question - should events make it so the same judging panel does day 2 that did day 1?

 

[NJ Coach]

I think my ideal split, in theory, would be 1/3, 2/3.

Next (related) question - should events make it so the same judging panel does day 2 that did day 1?

Yes! I do not like changing panels AT ALL!!!

 

[Deleted member 15]

Yes! I do not like changing panels AT ALL!!!

Why?

 

[Deleted member 15]

I'm a fan of day 1 setting the order and day 2 being the performance that matters. It hasn't hurt College Nationals or Worlds, the top teams still normally win, but it gives more hope to the underdogs. I'd also say use Day 1 as a tie breaker if teams tie on day 2. If they ties both days announce it as a tie.

If both days must count I like 1/3 and 2/3.

 

[Panacea]

Im for 40/60 and different juding panels each day.

 

[King]

Hi Kingston, I appreciate your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. I just dont agree at all. I am for the best team winning and by making day one worth so much less you are giving everyone the opprotunity to have a bad day on and giving them a 2nd chance. Why isnt it ok to have a bad day 2 and then still win. Thoughts??? Please know that I am not trying to start an argument. I am looking for some healthy debate so that hopefully in the end I can understand where you and these companies are coming from. When I asked the question to a mojor company they said to me "we'll alot of coaches complain if they have a bad day one they have no chance of winning and my answer is "they shouldnt have "a great chance". Yes everyone should have a chance but you have to agree there are a ton of one day wonder teams out there that can't hit a rouinte 2 days in a row. This gives them more opportunity to win and the consistant 2 day team less of an advantage. Thoughts?? This is what really rubbed me the wrong way.

I disagree there are a lot of 1 day wonders at 27/75 comps. In fact, the competition that has the most obscure and random winners is CHEERSPORT (the 50/50 competition with wildly varying scores). When competition fields have a LOT of teams (let us say Worlds) did we find the placements varied much from day 1 to day 2? That competition has day 1 not count at all to finals... but the placements (based on performance and execution) doesnt throw any curve balls. Why? Because reverse order (the genius of all this) organizes the teams into a mostly appropriate order. As well (and I have been on both sides with a team not capable of winning and a team destroying the field) it is in the best interest of the athletes to feel from day 1 to day 2 that a lot of 'action' can still happen. I have had the team that is so consistent that no one can catch up and all they have to do is just 'hit'. I think it is HARDER to bring what you have and hit day 2 when it counts 75 percent and still win. It breeds more competition, keeps it exciting. Who wants a guaranteed win?

As for changing panels I only think it is appropriate once we have a universal scoresheet.

 

[NJ Coach]

Why?

I prefer to have the same panel both days. It has been my experience that my scores shift significantly when there's been a panel switch.