All-Star A Growing Issue... I.e. Crossovers On Worlds Teams (for Bid Obtaining Purposes)

[Level5Mom]

I personally think the biggest test of this will be next year. Now that its pretty much out there and some of the big gyms (and a smaller one) are doing this to obtain bids, will others follow? You have a bomb.com level 5 team and a weak level 5 team in your gym? No worries...Secure your first bid with your best team, then go to another competition, replace 10 from the weak team with your stronger 10 from the better team with the paid bid....and BAM! Paid bids for everyone!

I agree with you. I think now that this loophole has been brought to light, others will follow next season. I would like to see changes made to the number of alternates allowed on a worlds team implemented THIS SUMMER. If they can add level 4.2 on an off rules year, then they can change this.

 

[JumpingJackFlash]

i am curious what they would do in case of injury. teams utilizing their 10 replacements up front are putting "all of their eggs in one basket," so to speak. if someone gets injured, they have no room for movement. Look at the example of tsunami at worlds last year. they had an injury, pulled an alternate, and re-performed. these teams will not be able to do this in case of emergency. their team is locked in.

obviously, i hope no one gets injured, but as a coach i don't know if i would take my chances here. maybe only 9 crossovers instead of 10

maybe it's just my obsessive "be prepared for anything" trait that makes me feel this way and i'm alone here.. but, just food for thought.

LOL! Well, I guess they compete with one less. Another snag to this practice that may not have been thought out. "Oh, what a tangled web we (cheerleading) weave, when first we practice to deceive"!

 

[5-6-7-8]

What if crossovers for worlds bid eligible teams were limited? You may not compete for 2 teams competing for a bid. But you could crossover to non worlds teams.

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I definitely think this is a good idea. (With the stipulation that other controls are in effect to prevent worlds athletes from crossing down to level 1 or something like that.)

Or would saying that an athlete on a worlds team (one actively going for a bid or one that has received a bid) may not cross over at all be too aggressive? I am not familiar with the workings at the upper level, but I don't think it is too far of a reach to say that if you are on the best of the best teams that you are held to a higher standard. (I know there are always the legitimate scenarios that come up, injuries / illness, etc. but how often would this be an issue?) I am guessing if you have enough athletes to field more than one Worlds team, you should have a strong level 4+ / 5R athlete who could fill in?

 

[imrichhowboutu]

I know it won't be popular with many people if we limit worlds athletes to no other level 5 crossovers. I know Stars had an injury in warm ups at one comp this year and grabbed a girl from O to fill in. They were able to compete about 30 minutes after they filled in this athlete. Situation like this may warrant a small number of fill ins. Perhaps no more than 10% (and we would round up) of the team may cross to another worlds team. Small - 2 athlete's crossing from other worlds teams, etc.

 

[5-6-7-8]

I know it won't be popular with many people if we limit worlds athletes to no other level 5 crossovers. I know Stars had an injury in warm ups at one comp this year and grabbed a girl from O to fill in. They were able to compete about 30 minutes after they filled in this athlete. Situation like this may warrant a small number of fill ins. Perhaps no more than 10% (and we would round up) of the team may cross to another worlds team. Small - 2 athlete's crossing from other worlds teams, etc.

I figured that. If (er, WHEN) we have a good athlete registration system in place, this should be a little easier to track (no "registered" crossovers for level 5, with the ability to replace someone last minute).

The problem with any wiggle room (for legit reasons) opens the door for more gaming. But I don't think too many people would think that 2 crossover athletes is "stacking" or "trying to secure a bid for another team."

 

[tucknduck]

Getting rid of crossovers the only answer. Anything else involving crossovers opens a can of worms. The only legit way to do this is use callups from lower divisions. Have two or three top lower level athletes on a list to replace an injured athlete at a higher level. This for sure will stop all the monkey business. When HS varsity athletes go down, they typically call up players from the JV to fill those spots.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

Getting rid of crossovers the only answer. Anything else involving crossovers opens a can of worms. The only legit way to do this is use callups from lower divisions. Have two or three top lower level athletes on a list to replace an injured athlete at a higher level. This for sure will stop all the monkey business. When HS varsity athletes go down, they typically call up players from the JV to fill those spots.

So would Shooting Stars be able to call up an athlete from Odyssey, or only an athlete from Galaxy (level 4 vs level 5)

 

[5-6-7-8]

So would Shooting Stars be able to call up an athlete from Odyssey, or only an athlete from Galaxy (level 4 vs level 5)

I definitely see the reasoning behind an absolute NO crossover rule. Actually makes the rule enforceable.

BUT, with this sport, I think we need to be able to make the last minute changes (and not limited to a "call up.") We had a mini 1 get injured. Guess we *could* have called up a tiny, but the girl who got injured was a base. We were able to grab a youth 2 (still mini age) to fill in at the last minute. I hardly think an athlete from a youth 2 given 45 minutes to learn as much as she could would make a huge difference to the mini 1 team (other than allowing the rest of the team to actually compete.) Same with level 5.

But the only way to make an enforceable rule is to have a good registration system in place, with the ability to make changes on the fly. (And I guess a way to verify, photo ID?, and a consequence in place if caught trying to violate the rule.)

 

[PghxCheer2]

I agree with you. I think now that this loophole has been brought to light, others will follow next season. I would like to see changes made to the number of alternates allowed on a worlds team implemented THIS SUMMER. If they can add level 4.2 on an off rules year, then they can change this.

But that would be easy and logical, Level5Mom. We must argue and fight for another year!

 

[NoOneSpecial]

So would Shooting Stars be able to call up an athlete from Odyssey, or only an athlete from Galaxy (level 4 vs level 5)

And what if your level 4 don't go to the same competitions as your level 5? That wouldn't work. I think that if there is an injury day of competition in warm ups you should be able to call upon anyone of your other teams in attendance. To me that is an acceptable/only solution.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

And what if your level 4 don't go to the same competitions as your level 5? That wouldn't work. I think that if there is an injury day of competition in warm ups you should be able to call upon anyone of your other teams in attendance. To me that is an acceptable/only solution.

As long as that person isn't already crossing over to X number of teams.

 

[Rudags]

IDK about anyone else.... but I think a majority of gyms out that only have ONE Level 5 team... Last year at Platinum Athletics, and the beginning of this year at Famous Athletics, if we had to deal with ANYTHING (quitters, injuries, ACT testing, etc) we pulled from our Level 4's and did JUST FINE! I don't see an issue with gyms only being able to pull from a Level 3/4 team. If your lucky to have a Restricted 5 or a J5.... Go you...

 

[imrichhowboutu]

IDK about anyone else.... but I think a majority of gyms out that only have ONE Level 5 team... Last year at Platinum Athletics, and the beginning of this year at Famous Athletics, if we had to deal with ANYTHING (quitters, injuries, ACT testing, etc) we pulled from our Level 4's and did JUST FINE! I don't see an issue with gyms only being able to pull from a Level 3/4 team. If your lucky to have a Restricted 5 or a J5.... Go you...

I know this isn't the USASFs problem, but the gyms with multiple level 5s, if someone is injured on their premier level 5 team, chances are a level 4 athlete won't be able to hop right into their shoes the way a level 5 athlete could. There are plenty of level 5 routines out there that are only competing level 4 skills anyway, or have some fakers so that isn't hard to fill in.

 

[Rudags]

I know this isn't the USASFs problem, but the gyms with multiple level 5s, if someone is injured on their premier level 5 team, chances are a level 4 athlete won't be able to hop right into their shoes the way a level 5 athlete could. There are plenty of level 5 routines out there that are only competing level 4 skills anyway, or have some fakers so that isn't hard to fill in.

Maybe its geographics, but I would hope the strongest athlete on your level 4 team could fill in a level 5 team. And you might just have to water something down...

 

[SheCheers]

Seriously asking...Since NCA does not allow crossovers between and I would say most gyms don't have multiples of any level gym....what do those gyms do with last minute injuries? I mean, if one of the, if not THE, biggest US competition can do it, it can be implemented across the board. Yeah it would suck for some teams in some instances, but it would not seriously hurt any gym. And it would better the sport as a whole.