Backhandsprings

[shawn smith]

Okay, I'm about to start working on double fulls, but I am worried that my feet land too far in front of me in my backhandspring. When I do fulls I go back instead of up and I really need to fix this problem before advancing to double fulls. So how exactly can I get my feet to land correctly?

 

[cheernerd5678]

It sounds more like you need to work on your set than you need to work on your back handsprings. You probably need to go back to tucks and work on your set there, then bring that set into your layout and then your full before you start working doubles. Your coaches likely have drills for working on setting so ask them for some!


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[shawn smith]

Okay, thank you; I will do that.

 

[SarahS]

While the set is important, it is a VERY good thing that you are concerned about BHS feet placement! Physics!! When your feet land in front of your body in a BHS, your next skill will travel in the same lateral direction and remain relatively low to the ground - so if you're doing multiple BHS, you want your feet to land in front of your body, so that you are in the optimum position to continue those long BHS skills. However, when you are using a BHS prior to an airborne skill, you want a long BHS where your feet land slightly behind your body (to be clear, this is for the BHS immediately preceding the airborne skill).
This is where I normally whip out my white board or piece of chalk and draw stick figures to help demonstrate, lol. The feet landing slightly behind the body in that BHS allows the rebound to direct the motion of the body straight up. So you're basically converting your lateral momentum to vertical, which allows for a higher set. You still have to ensure that your set is done properly, of course, but the angle of entry from the preceding BHS absolutely matters! (And your round off matters, too! An improperly completed round off can translate all the way through to your airborne skills, but you didn't ask about that so I won't go into further detail as I'm long winded enough, haha!)
I agree that you should take it back to tucks or layouts and assure that your BHS entry into those airborne skills is done properly. It will likely feel... odd at first, if you have been able to complete single full twisting layouts with a feet-in-front BHS. I would hazard a guess that you will be amazed by the amount of power and height in your set you will gain by using physics to your advantage.

Edit - I am always, always baffled by the number of cheerleaders with relatively high-level tumbling skills who have never been taught this.

 

[MOPSMommy1]

@SarahS - thank you for sharing this! You are a wealth of knowledge! I'm sure my CP has been taught this but I didn't know it and I love being able to understand what she does better.


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[CheerBank]

Edit - I am always, always baffled by the number of cheerleaders with relatively high-level tumbling skills who have never been taught this.

I am more baffled by the number of coaches who do not know this, because if they did, you probably wouldn't be as baffled by those cheerleaders.

Your description using physics reminds me of the movie Ice Princess where the main character uses physics to improve ice skaters' jumps and eventually applies them to herself.

 

[SarahS]

I am more baffled by the number of coaches who do not know this, because if they did, you probably wouldn't be as baffled by those cheerleaders.

Your description using physics reminds me of the movie Ice Princess where the main character uses physics to improve ice skaters' jumps and eventually applies them to herself.

True. I meant to implicate the coaches in my statement, but I can see now that it looks like I'm blaming the kids. I think that most coaches who have higher level tumbling experience as an athlete "know" these things, as in, their bodies know how to make these adjustments on the fly, whether or not anyone has explicitly told them about the *why* of how it all works. I'm just kind of cerebral (read: nerdy nerdnerd) in everything I do, so the *why* of it all really matters to me.
It should be noted - for coach credentialing, USASF asks these types of questions. If your coach is credentialed above level 1, they probably have been asked about the *why* of how tumbling skills like this work (even in level 1, they ask the why questions, but BHS aren't allowed in L1, so obviously they don't ask about this.)

 

[cheer25mom]

While the set is important, it is a VERY good thing that you are concerned about BHS feet placement! Physics!! When your feet land in front of your body in a BHS, your next skill will travel in the same lateral direction and remain relatively low to the ground - so if you're doing multiple BHS, you want your feet to land in front of your body, so that you are in the optimum position to continue those long BHS skills. However, when you are using a BHS prior to an airborne skill, you want a long BHS where your feet land slightly behind your body (to be clear, this is for the BHS immediately preceding the airborne skill).
This is where I normally whip out my white board or piece of chalk and draw stick figures to help demonstrate, lol. The feet landing slightly behind the body in that BHS allows the rebound to direct the motion of the body straight up. So you're basically converting your lateral momentum to vertical, which allows for a higher set. You still have to ensure that your set is done properly, of course, but the angle of entry from the preceding BHS absolutely matters! (And your round off matters, too! An improperly completed round off can translate all the way through to your airborne skills, but you didn't ask about that so I won't go into further detail as I'm long winded enough, haha!)
I agree that you should take it back to tucks or layouts and assure that your BHS entry into those airborne skills is done properly. It will likely feel... odd at first, if you have been able to complete single full twisting layouts with a feet-in-front BHS. I would hazard a guess that you will be amazed by the amount of power and height in your set you will gain by using physics to your advantage.

Edit - I am always, always baffled by the number of cheerleaders with relatively high-level tumbling skills who have never been taught this.

ITA with this. My CP is learning to tuck and has spent months perfecting this before she was even allowed to attempt to rotate. Countless hours of drills, and videos watched, broken down ect. to get a straight rebound out of the BHS that is suitable for a tuck, and to learn how to properly set. I have seen the results when a kid isn't taught the proper approach and set. Frankly, it is scary to watch and in a lot of cases its an injury waiting to happen.

ETA: I LOVE CP's private lesson coach because he educates not only CP, but me about these kinds of things, why they are doing what they are, and what he is trying to accomplish with her. I appreciate that he takes the time to explain the purpose of the seemingly endless sets fo drills and helps parents understand that tumbling is a process and "just throw it" is not the attitude to have. I think it cuts down on a lot of SM behavior when parents understand the process and WHY their child is being asked to spend time on this or that drill rather that just throwing the skill.

 

[CheerBank]

ITA with this. My CP is learning to tuck and has spent months perfecting this before she was even allowed to attempt to rotate. Countless hours of drills, and videos watched, broken down ect. to get a straight rebound out of the BHS that is suitable for a tuck, and to learn how to properly set. I have seen the results when a kid isn't taught the proper approach and set. Frankly, it is scary to watch and in a lot of cases its an injury waiting to happen.

ETA: I LOVE CP's private lesson coach because he educates not only CP, but me about these kinds of things, why they are doing what they are, and what he is trying to accomplish with her. I appreciate that he takes the time to explain the purpose of the seemingly endless sets fo drills and helps parents understand that tumbling is a process and "just throw it" is not the attitude to have. I think it cuts down on a lot of SM behavior when parents understand the process and WHY their child is being asked to spend time on this or that drill rather that just throwing the skill.

The best privates cp has taken to date was from a coach who was able to explain exactly what she needed to do with her body - and why - in a way that she understood . Sadly he was not at our gym

 

[Michael White]

While the set is important, it is a VERY good thing that you are concerned about BHS feet placement! Physics!! When your feet land in front of your body in a BHS, your next skill will travel in the same lateral direction and remain relatively low to the ground - so if you're doing multiple BHS, you want your feet to land in front of your body, so that you are in the optimum position to continue those long BHS skills. However, when you are using a BHS prior to an airborne skill, you want a long BHS where your feet land slightly behind your body (to be clear, this is for the BHS immediately preceding the airborne skill).
This is where I normally whip out my white board or piece of chalk and draw stick figures to help demonstrate, lol. The feet landing slightly behind the body in that BHS allows the rebound to direct the motion of the body straight up. So you're basically converting your lateral momentum to vertical, which allows for a higher set. You still have to ensure that your set is done properly, of course, but the angle of entry from the preceding BHS absolutely matters! (And your round off matters, too! An improperly completed round off can translate all the way through to your airborne skills, but you didn't ask about that so I won't go into further detail as I'm long winded enough, haha!)
I agree that you should take it back to tucks or layouts and assure that your BHS entry into those airborne skills is done properly. It will likely feel... odd at first, if you have been able to complete single full twisting layouts with a feet-in-front BHS. I would hazard a guess that you will be amazed by the amount of power and height in your set you will gain by using physics to your advantage.

Edit - I am always, always baffled by the number of cheerleaders with relatively high-level tumbling skills who have never been taught this.

Usually when I try to explain the mechanics, coaches, as well as athletes, usually look at me with a lost expression so I usually end up drawing or demonstrating as well.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

While the set is important, it is a VERY good thing that you are concerned about BHS feet placement! Physics!! When your feet land in front of your body in a BHS, your next skill will travel in the same lateral direction and remain relatively low to the ground - so if you're doing multiple BHS, you want your feet to land in front of your body, so that you are in the optimum position to continue those long BHS skills. However, when you are using a BHS prior to an airborne skill, you want a long BHS where your feet land slightly behind your body (to be clear, this is for the BHS immediately preceding the airborne skill).
This is where I normally whip out my white board or piece of chalk and draw stick figures to help demonstrate, lol. The feet landing slightly behind the body in that BHS allows the rebound to direct the motion of the body straight up. So you're basically converting your lateral momentum to vertical, which allows for a higher set. You still have to ensure that your set is done properly, of course, but the angle of entry from the preceding BHS absolutely matters! (And your round off matters, too! An improperly completed round off can translate all the way through to your airborne skills, but you didn't ask about that so I won't go into further detail as I'm long winded enough, haha!)
I agree that you should take it back to tucks or layouts and assure that your BHS entry into those airborne skills is done properly. It will likely feel... odd at first, if you have been able to complete single full twisting layouts with a feet-in-front BHS. I would hazard a guess that you will be amazed by the amount of power and height in your set you will gain by using physics to your advantage.

Edit - I am always, always baffled by the number of cheerleaders with relatively high-level tumbling skills who have never been taught this.

In reference to the quote you added with your EDIT, the reason for this lack of technique is that too many coaches are trying to "hit the grid" as opposed to teaching skills correctly. Instead of "perfection before progression," we now have "do it without dying and then move on." As long as no one is sitting around preparing to dial 9-1-1 before a kid performs a skill, cheer coaches who are trying to "hit the grid," consider that good enough to move on to the next skill. I can't tell you how many kids want me to spot them on their standing tuck, who flop from feet to hands to feet like a smallmouth bass in the bottom of a boat while doing a backhandspring. Then they get offended when I say, "let's fix your backhandspring first". Parents want their kids on level 5 at all costs, and coaches are "hitting the grid." The kids get discouraged because they're not good enough to be a "cheerlebrity." Also, I guarantee that those "relatively high-level tumbling" kids you reference, would be phenomenal tumblers if they had been taught correctly. You don't develop the ability to turn crap fundamentals into relatively high-level tumbling skills without being an amazing natural athlete.

 

[cheer25mom]

In reference to the quote you added with your EDIT, the reason for this lack of technique is that too many coaches are trying to "hit the grid" as opposed to teaching skills correctly. Instead of "perfection before progression," we now have "do it without dying and then move on." As long as no one is sitting around preparing to dial 9-1-1 before a kid performs a skill, cheer coaches who are trying to "hit the grid," consider that good enough to move on to the next skill. I can't tell you how many kids want me to spot them on their standing tuck, who flop from feet to hands to feet like a smallmouth bass in the bottom of a boat while doing a backhandspring. Then they get offended when I say, "let's fix your backhandspring first". Parents want their kids on level 5 at all costs, and coaches are "hitting the grid." The kids get discouraged because they're not good enough to be a "cheerlebrity." Also, I guarantee that those "relatively high-level tumbling" kids you reference, would be phenomenal tumblers if they had been taught correctly. You don't develop the ability to turn crap fundamentals into relatively high-level tumbling skills without being an amazing natural athlete.

I couldn't agree more. My CP doesn't have that natural talent, so she had to really have solid skills before moving on to the next one, and I think that has worked to her benefit in terms of being consistent with the skills she has. We have watched kids shoot through levels at other places, only to reach the end of where raw natural talent can take them and stagnate or end up with a mental block when a skill goes south and it scares them. Sometimes CP feels bad because she is not progressing as fast and some of her friends, but I am so glad that her coaches are good about reminding her that a skill is only as good as your ability to hit it 100% in a full out, and that everyone progresses at their own pace.

 

[cheermom02]

I always wondered what my cp was talking about when she would say her first back handspring need to be short and her second would need to be long when doing standing tumbling. Now it makes much more sense!!!!


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