All-Star Cheating With Over Age Kids On Teams!!!!

[yooolizzi]

DUMB QUESTION ALERT: When I was 15, I entered in an jump off for Cheer and Dance Extreme. They told me since I was 15, I was in the junior age division. How is that right?

 

[SheCheers]

Did you turn 15 after August 31?

 

[magical mom]

I have actually had to question a gym owner that had an athlete that looked way over age before. They were a mini team and they had 3 girls that were 5'- 5' 5" and were mature, we questioned one in particular. My daughter that year aged out and she is one of the tallest in her grade and they towered her. We did tell the EP and they actually checked into it. It took hours before the other gym could come up with the birth cert and supposedly she was of age. They could have pulled anyones birth cert. in my opinion and the EP would never know if it is that kid or not. I still believe that she or the other 2 were out of age and that they used a different birt cert, but at least we made the stand to come and say something in case this was the truth.
Also, you would be surprised as to what gyms have done this over the years and have never got caught........

 

[yooolizzi]

Did you turn 15 after August 31?

No, before. My birthday is in February. The competition was in January, so I was barely 15. A month later and I would have been 16.

 

[Drkilluzionz]

Hmmm...where to begin and what to say...

I do believe that those who cheat should be turned in b/c at the end of the day...rules are set in place for a reason...they might not all make sense or we might not all agree on them but we do all agree to abide by them.

I know of local gyms who have used ineligible athletes, one in particular almost habitually. One of the biggest problems one faces is proving that an athlete is ineligible. Some who cheat will go to lengths to cover up the fact that they've cheated and without sufficient proof to prove otherwise it just becomes a he said she said matter.

I think Jamfest's $200 is a little steep but I do understand why some companies charge to make claims against other programs...I've seen plenty of gyms get caught up in petty bickering and call other programs out b/c that child looks too old or that child is way too young. Making someone pay kind of separates those true claims from the false petty ones and if you're correct you do get your money back.

 

[tdittmar]

I don't understand why State ID's aren't required. My cp plays travel softball and we are required to get a state ID for her and have it with us at registration. It costs $11 and fits in my wallet. Then if anyone is questioned at a comp, you just whip out your ID and the problem is solved. You could forge a state ID, but would think thats illegal and not as easy as just producing someone else's birth certificate.

 

[crazycheermom]

And I feel like it happens more with mini and youth teams, but also junior teams as well. Our new high school is starting a lacrosse team and literally, BEFORE they boys have had their first practice, they are told to register with USA Lacrosse.. or whatever the official name of it is.. lol.. sorry I don't know the name of that organization, but my point is, other sports put a HUGE emphasis on age restrictions/requirements.

 

[ACEDAD]

Definitely turn them in, please. We've got to get this out.

And Cory is right about having some kind of charge or hurdle. We can't just allow random charges that gyms might have to defend all the time. There has to be something that causes people to be sure of their accusations.

 

[ztaprincess]

I don't understand why State ID's aren't required. My cp plays travel softball and we are required to get a state ID for her and have it with us at registration. It costs $11 and fits in my wallet. Then if anyone is questioned at a comp, you just whip out your ID and the problem is solved. You could forge a state ID, but would think thats illegal and not as easy as just producing someone else's birth certificate.

I don't understand it either. Even before I had my permit I had a state ID for when we would travel on vacations and such. Where I am from they were only like $10 and from what I remember didn't expire until I got my permit at 15. Forging one could be done, but it would be a lot harder then a birth certificate. Since a birth certificate doesn't have a picture attached to it anyone's could be used. Also more and more these days states are making their IDs harder to fake.
They could be like some placed and require 2 forms of ID, a birth certificate AND a picture ID. To change my drivers license in the state of GA I had to show my birth certificate and another form of picture ID before they would do anything.

 

[retiredl5cheer]

DUMB QUESTION ALERT: When I was 15, I entered in an jump off for Cheer and Dance Extreme. They told me since I was 15, I was in the junior age division. How is that right?

Cheer and Dance Extreme doesn't follow USASF rules. You can also throw fulls in level 4 there.

 

[worldsring09]

Definitely turn them in, please. We've got to get this out.

And Cory is right about having some kind of charge or hurdle. We can't just allow random charges that gyms might have to defend all the time. There has to be something that causes people to be sure of their accusations.

I agree that you should not be allowed to randomly make accusations, however, isn't there a better way to handle this than charging someone $200 up front? And what if you pay the $200 and Jammy secretly agrees with you that you are more than likely correct with your accusation, but Susie slimeball and/or her slimeball gym has a fake ID.....are you stuck for the $200? Why am I paying an additional $200 for a broken system? What is the standard of proof? Preponderance of the evidence? Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt? If you are charging me $200 bucks, you better have this figured out before I am standing there with my money. Or maybe my $200 is a check that I am promptly stopping payment on after I walk away while Jammy stands there scratching his bizarre head, with all of us thinking awww nevermind let 'em cheat!!

 

[aggie1983]

I agree that you should not be allowed to randomly make accusations, however, isn't there a better way to handle this than charging someone $200 up front? And what if you pay the $200 and Jammy secretly agrees with you that you are more than likely correct with your accusation, but Susie slimeball and/or her slimeball gym has a fake ID.....are you stuck for the $200? Why am I paying an additional $200 for a broken system? What is the standard of proof? Preponderance of the evidence? Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt? If you are charging me $200 bucks, you better have this figured out before I am standing there with my money. Or maybe my $200 is a check that I am promptly stopping payment on after I walk away while Jammy stands there scratching his bizarre head, with all of us thinking awww nevermind let 'em cheat!!

While I understand the questioning of the $200 charge to challenge the legality of a team's composition, it is not unusual. When my son played travel ball, it was not at all uncommon for the tournament organizers to charge up to $300 (cash only) if you were going to question the age of a player. We only did it once, but sure enough, the opposing team's coach somehow didn't have that one boy's birth certificate. They got disqualified from the tournament. But the charge protects from one team questioning another teams's roster arbitrarily. Just because a child looks too old doesn't mean they are, if you have to lay out cash, you're going to make darn sure you have some facts to back up your challenge. It's just a shame that people make it necessary to even have that concern. And unfortunately, if they are willing to cheat, they probably have found parents willing to lie as well if questioned. Parents might be ignorant of the rules at first, but you usually know the basics after that first year. (except maybe for the mom who sits next to SheCheers ;))

 

[acxjags]

Well I am going to place a formal complaint....due to the overwhelming opinion to do so. I can prove it and the parent in question said she would not lie and would provide documentation if asked about his age. I will keep you posted on the progress of this process.

 

[WyldWon]

I have a local gym near me. Most their teams are not in my divisions. Last year they were under suspicion for having 10 and 11 yr olds on a mini team. Kids from my gym that went to school with the "over age kids" knew they were too old. But you can't prove age on a young kid. However this year....they have a youth age team with a 13 yr old on it. I know this because that kid also takes at my gym and I have their registration information. Should I throw them under the bus or let Karma do its job? I can not stand a cheater and want to blow the whistle but I don't want to ruin the last month of a season for the other kids on that team---(even if they aren't my kids) thoughts?

I think I would let the gym know directly that you know of the illegal athlete...many years ago when my daughter was on a junior prep team, her coach had a business trip so I helped the assistant coach with the girls. We went up against a team that had very tall/older looking girls...there was NO WAY they were 12 year olds, I emailed a note to their gym noting the fact, 2 weeks later, they were entered as Senior Prep at another comp. This way, no one is really hurt and the gym owner has a chance to make it right for the innocent kids on the team.

 

[acxjags]

I will let them know. But they have competed ALL Year this way. The parent told me. I believe all titles should be revolked and serious punishment should be implemented. There needs to be a standard across the board punishment posted so people know what they are getting in to before they cheat and they are fully aware of the consequences.