All-Star Cheer Vs. Gymnastics

[mariahnicole1216]

I have to write a paper/article for my creative writing project and the theme I got was Sports. I want to do on a piece on the similarites and differences of gymnastics. Considering I haven't done gymnastics since I was 4 I really don't remember what the atmosphere and was like and stuff like that. I could really use some help. Anyone?

 

[shep]

Gymnastics is governed largely by USA Gymnastics, I have no experience with any minor governing bodies so I wont comment on those. USAG consists of four different types of gymnastics Women's and Men's artistic, Rhythmic, tramp and tumbling and acrobatic.

The most popular (and the only one I have any experience coaching) is Women's artistic, consisting of four event's; vault, bars, floor and beam. All four events are equal in value and add up to a perfect score of 40 overall.

Much like cheerleading there are dozens of possible divisions based on age and level.
Differing greatly from cheer are USAG's requirements. It is head and shoulders above competitive cheer at current. All USAG events must require that every individual athlete, coach, and gym be registered through USAG. While the USASF is in place, this stipulation does not exist at most events. With USAG's requirements of conformity has allowed complete uniformity in judging, that said if a bar routine has a start value of 10.0 and a missed handstand during the routine is a .3 point deduction at one meet it will have the same start value and same deductions at every meet. While true that across the board scoring is universal in USAG judging is not. Judges will vary and score higher or lower than other judges. Where this varies coaches have an option of clarification of judging by challenging the judges score. If the coach feels that the judge was too harsh (I've never seen a coach want their score to be lower) they can challenge and ask what deductions were given, I have personally seen about a 50% rate of increased scores when coaches challenge (the actual number may be higher or lower).

I mentioned start values. Start values come into play in the optional levels. Optional levels are levels 7,8,9 and 10. While compulsory levels are 3-6. Compulsory routines are the same for every athlete in any given level (IE. all level 4's do the same floor routine), while optional routines for all events are, as the name implies, optional. Without getting too deep there are different levels of skills and each routine contains a number of various level skills that ideally add up to 10. If a gymnast has fails to have a start value of more than 9.5 the very best that gymnast could ever do, if they were 100% perfect would be a 9.5. And if a gymnast only has a SV of 9.5 I wouldn't expect above a score in the mid 8's.

Now here's the part you may not care about but I personally feel that competitive cheer should move in this direction. One of start values and consistent deductions and total scoring transparency. Cheer will never lose it's ability to show personality and style but having different scoring levels of stunts jumps and tumbling (inside the current leveling structure) would allow start values to be maxed (I know some companies have started to go to this type of system) and I feel that the quality of cheer routines would explode across the all star world. I'm not sure that I've done a good job explaining this paragraph as I'm a little distracted, I'm sitting in the gym almost ready to spot bars!

If you have any questions I can try to answer them, I've only been coaching gymnastics for about three years so I'm no expert, I have been involved with cheerleading for almost 10 years now so I have a fairly decent grasp on the differences.

 

[mariahnicole1216]

Oh my goodness you have no idea how much that helps. Thank you so much!

 

[iCheer4G]

I haven't actually done gymnastics since I was 7, but I do tumble at a gymnastics gym. Gymnastics is definately more solo. They really only have to worry about themselves while they are performing. They don't have to be thinking about "I hope Suzie hits her stunt and I hope Sally throws her full!" as they are performing, where as in cheer when your on the floor, your trying to watch the other stunts and tumbling to make sure it hits.

Also there are more levels with a lesser spread between levels.

 

[shep]

There are also age divisions that split levels. And while it's not a big deal at all, they do have team placements and team winners and losers.

 

[tumbleyoda]

You have to qualify to move up a level by attaining a score prescribed by USAG. If memory serves me correctly you had to get this score at least twice at two different USAG sanctioned meets. You just cant say you want to be a level 7 or if you are not made a level 8 so you can be on the same "team" with your friends you threaten to quit. While gymnastics does have its own share of Suzy mom issues, the scoring system takes some of that drama to be promoted away.

Judges are certified and trained through one main organization, NAWGJ for example for Women. Training is ongoing at the local, state and National level. Each region as a judging director. Each state has its own judging director. A gym hosting a competition must submit paperwork to run the meet, including a request for judges. The gym has no say in who is assigned to judge the meet unless it is not a sanctioned competition. The judges are assigned by the judging director based in qualifications, seniority, meet requirements and availability. As stated above a coach can challenge a score if they feel like the score is too low, or an element was not given proper credit the same day of the event - usually within the same rotation.

The safety certification process is more stringent in gymnastics than in cheer. Yes they have been doing it longer, but even from my ancient days of coaching gymnastics it was not an easy test to pass without some studying. In cheer can you call in and get certified so your team can go to Worlds AFTER they win a Worlds bid...SMH. Without proper certification or credentials, you are not even allowed to be on the floor at many sanctioned competitions.

The aim of perfection of routine elements mandates that numerous drills are taught and perfected before skills are even attempted. A gymnast with "janky" skills is guaranteeing they will remain at that same competitive level until they fix whatever is "janky." Just because they change gyms they cant automatically move up a level saying they were held back. Progressions is not seen as a dirty word - it is the life blood of most gymnastic schools/centers.

Each skill has a value designated by FIG. Depending on the level the gymnast is competing each routines must have a certain amount of each value skills. Compulsory routines already have those elements in them. Optional routines allows the coach and gymnast to pick skills from their strength as long as the skill value is the same.

 

[shep]

You have to qualify to move up a level by attaining a score prescribed by USAG. If memory serves me correctly you had to get this score at least twice at two different USAG sanctioned meets. You just cant say you want to be a level 7 or if you are not made a level 8 so you can be on the same "team" with your friends you threaten to quit. While gymnastics does have its own share of Suzy mom issues, the scoring system takes some of that drama to be promoted away

The safety certification process is more stringent in gymnastics than in cheer. Yes they have been doing it longer, but even from my ancient days of coaching gymnastics it was not an easy test to pass without some studying. In cheer can you call in and get certified so your team can go to Worlds AFTER they win a Worlds bid...SMH. Without proper certification or credentials, you are not even allowed to be on the floor at many sanctioned competitions.

The aim of perfection of routine elements mandates that numerous drills are taught and perfected before skills are even attempted. A gymnast with "janky" skills is guaranteeing they will remain at that same competitive level until they fix whatever is "janky." Just because they change gyms they cant automatically move up a level saying they were held back. Progressions is not seen as a dirty word - it is the life blood of most gymnastic schools/centers.

Each skill has a value designated by FIG. Depending on the level the gymnast is competing each routines must have a certain amount of each value skills. Compulsory routines already have those elements in them. Optional routines allows the coach and gymnast to pick skills from their strength as long as the skill value is the same.

That may be true however in general, your scores only need to be high enough to qualify you for state competition. Once state is accomplished then you can move on to bigger and better events including nationals (it's a real national's event, not just in name like so many cheer comps). Coaches make the final decision on what level to compete gymnasts. You register gymnasts differently based on what level they compete at and there is some paper work to do switching in the middle of the season, but coaches have the final say in what level each and every gymnast competes at. In some gyms kids will skip two to three levels per year in the off-season if talented enough (even though this often leaves young gymnasts without a strong fundamental background).

I know coaches that have been coaching for 15+ years who have failed the safety certification test.

Now at every sanctioned event your credentials are checked at the door. If you tell them that you are a coach and it's clear you want to enter the competition floor you must present your USAG card. Gymnasts are asked for their USAG number as they check in. EVERYONE must be credentialed from day one.

All to often in gyms all over, progression is rushed. And most of the time it doesn't hurt the kid in the long run, say you've got a kid who arches in every back hip circle or cast handstand, with numerous reps that problem will likely fix itself. If a kid has an awful middle circle (or straddle circle) it doesn't really matter because they'll literally never complete anything remotely like that again as a gymnast. While a lot of basic progressions are taught, many are skimmed and come back to later. Many kids move up levels while having one or two bad skills from the previous level. However the best gyms won't allow athletes to move up until they achieve near perfection.

Yep! :)

 

[tumbleyoda]

That may be true however in general, your scores only need to be high enough to qualify you for state competition. Once state is accomplished then you can move on to bigger and better events including nationals (it's a real national's event, not just in name like so many cheer comps). Coaches make the final decision on what level to compete gymnasts. You register gymnasts differently based on what level they compete at and there is some paper work to do switching in the middle of the season, but coaches have the final say in what level each and every gymnast competes at. In some gyms kids will skip two to three levels per year in the off-season if talented enough (even though this often leaves young gymnasts without a strong fundamental background).

I know coaches that have been coaching for 15+ years who have failed the safety certification test.

Now at every sanctioned event your credentials are checked at the door. If you tell them that you are a coach and it's clear you want to enter the competition floor you must present your USAG card. Gymnasts are asked for their USAG number as they check in. EVERYONE must be credentialed from day one.

All to often in gyms all over, progression is rushed. And most of the time it doesn't hurt the kid in the long run, say you've got a kid who arches in every back hip circle or cast handstand, with numerous reps that problem will likely fix itself. If a kid has an awful middle circle (or straddle circle) it doesn't really matter because they'll literally never complete anything remotely like that again as a gymnast. While a lot of basic progressions are taught, many are skimmed and come back to later. Many kids move up levels while having one or two bad skills from the previous level. However the best gyms won't allow athletes to move up until they achieve near perfection.

Yep! :)

I am a dinosaur in gymnastic terms (late 70's) Although I still coach gymnastics from time to time if asked, (I run privates and teach classes in two different gymnastic facilities along with our main cheer location) I have not kept up with most of the current changes as far as rules. I was doing this when it was USGF not USAG. When USAIGC split from USGF (Think Varsity vs Jamfest for Cheer) non spread bars and there was a major uproar when then added Level 5 to the the levels 1,2 3, and 4, then split level 3 into a compulsory and optional level. (When Level 1 was where everyone was trying to get to, not the current Level 10)

Perhaps I was just blessed to be in gyms where progressions were not rushed. As I result as a young coach my desire to hurry up was tempered. But then again it was a different time and parents were not as pushy about about moving up or moving on to a new gym. Where rushed progressions always hurt the athlete is in the long range view of training as opposed to short term. This is why (switching to cheer for a minute) we have so many level 4's and 5's that can not do a proper front walkover or back walkover. It was deemed an unnecessary "gymnastic" skill. Now you have teams everywhere using their routines to max out certain ares of tumbling. Eventually now it will level out because of the increased use in the lower levels. True some skills not as used. Take the straddle circle. It was used as a progression to eventually teach stradle circle shoot to handstand then stalder circles then stalder circle shoot to HS by many older coaches. The athlete understanding how to do that one skill, made it easier to teach the stalder circle to HS which at that time was a necessary skill. Not that it is our is not a good progression currently, but it did have a place. In a time way far away.:)

The other thing to remember about progressions is not the talented kid that will skip levels. Every gym has some of those kids. These kids would progress no matter who their coach is, although a knowledgeable coach could accelerate that even further. Proper progressions teach not only the safety aspect but ensures that the majority of the rest of the students have the best possible chance to advance their skills as well.

I def knew coaches that struggled with passing the test. Those I knew had issues with testing period. That test again is not a piece of cake. I would never take it without studying hard for it before the date.

Thanks for the updates!

 

[Weezy]

Gym D has been both a competitive gymnast and allstar cheerleader (as well as coach/choreographer). He is a good contact for this.