All-Star Cheersport Scoring

[crazycheermom]

This really isn't related to the subject at hand, but I LOVE how Cheersport posts results as the day progresses - if anyone else does that, I'm not aware of it. I was able to find out how my daughter's former teammates did without bothering parents at a comp and asking how they did after they potentially may have bombed.

Jamfest Indy actually tweeted standings/results this year. It did make things less hectic. No waiting around for announcment of standings, etc.

 

[cheerinfo]

quitthedrama

So is NCA now too big? They are bigger than Cheersport (at least on paper as of now) They need tons of judges. I am not saying quality of judges vary from panel to panel, arena to arena, event to event. But your issue seems to be that it's too BIG. Jamfest Supers are pretty large, and NCA is now as large or larger. Are they too big? I think you can have a dreadful competition with 100 teams. I think it's all about logistics, customer service, etc. I think you hear more complaints from the larger events because, well, there are more people there, so more people to complain. But I think all the major nationals do a pretty good job at hosting their events. Some may be better or preferred over others, but I think they do a great job and are usually always trying to improve from one year to the next. No one is perfect, but I think they do a pretty good job. Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand the biggest issues. Is it size? Judging? Scoresheets? Grids? Etc. I think so much goes into these big events, you are bound to have problems, it's how they handle those issues from one year to the next that matters to me. I think most of these huge comps stay huge because, in general, they are successful, customer oriented, willing to make changes, etc.

 

[mdcheerdiva]

Jamfest Indy actually tweeted standings/results this year. It did make things less hectic. No waiting around for announcment of standings, etc.

NCA updates throughout the day and Day 1 scores are up within 15-20 minutes in the arena.

 

[coach12]

i will say that both cheersport and nca are of course run so organized and efficiently. i guess its just me that gets a bit "overwhelmed" at these HUGE comps.
and i can't help but wonder how you would get that many "qualified" judges?

 

[quitthedrama]

cheerinfo - let me clarify. I think CHEERSPORT has gotten too big in the fact the EP has not taken the steps to accomodate the growth. I feel the same way about Worlds. I think Jamfest and NCA both are able to manage the size of the competition they run and do it very well. This is my fourth year at CHEERSPORT and I see a decline in the overall competition each year. They still do a LOT of things very well, but I feel they need to "grow with their growth" so to speak. I don't think a competition can be too big and I am sorry if my post gave that impression, and I have been to plenty of those small comps that are not run well so I am in total agreement with you there!

Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk 2

 

[tumbleyoda]

I think the issue with judging in general is that currently the best judges (because of different scoresheets and different companies having exclusivity with judges) are the ones who coach teams. Well... At the two biggest events in the cheer world if all the coaches who are good judges brought their teams... Who is left to judge?

But at some point soon I see rules and judges being taken over completely by USASF. Then competition companies will hire officiating crews.

This is the point I have been inarticulately making for years. Make them separate. The rules (USASF) and judges (separate organization or USASF) once Varsity/USASF ceases to be the conjoined twins they are now. Then let EP's go thru the judging organization to get the judges for their event and let the judging organization assign judges based on quality of work, training,, experience, and need.

 

[King]

This is the point I have been inarticulately making for years. Make them separate. The rules (USASF) and judges (separate organization or USASF) once Varsity/USASF ceases to be the conjoined twins they are now. Then let EP's go thru the judging organization to get the judges for their event and let the judging organization assign judges based on quality of work, training,, experience, and need.

I highly believe EPs should be responsible for everything at a competition that's not on the mat. What's on the mat should be the same everywhere.

 

[BlueCat]

How well an event producer can handle a large event depends on the venue and the EP's skill/experience. If fully trust that NCA could get 1500 teams and it would run smoothly. Other EPs/Venues can't seem to manage a few hundred teams. (a particular end-of-year event comes to mind.)

Not going to lie - the scoring issues with CheerSport last year were a huge factor in us not returning. We were baffled with the results for our teams - sometimes we placed higher than we thought we should, other times lower. If we don't feel that we can at least somewhat predict how a system works, then we simply won't attend. We had been warned to expect that randomness by many other programs, but we didn't believe it until we saw it. We pretty much liked everything else about the event, but if we can't understand scoring, then not much else matters.

I am assuming that the rankings were more consistent with what you would expect by using the Varsity system. However, after watching videos, it seems like the actual scores were a little off from what we would have expected in our neck of the woods. Some of the scores seemed lower than they should have been - others higher. In theory, the Varsity system should reward teams with similar scores regardless of which competition you attend.

 

[aggie1983]

BlueCat
Your post basically reflects the opinion of a coach for whom I have a great deal of respect. He quit taking teams there because he thought the judging was so unpredictable and didn't want his teams to get psyched out by perhaps performing poorly (or to perceive themselves as performing poorly) at Cheersport when NCA tends to follow so closely - one week apart recently.

 

[THEJOEL]

We were told over and over to not record it take pictures because the teams could lose points or get disqualified. Yet there were iPads everywhere recording. What is the deal with that?

Is this written somewhere? Or a rumor?
Hard to say if this is a rule if it's not in print somewhere.

 

[THEJOEL]

I thought there were issues with the scoring for many of the divisions and I know for a fact there were teams scored in the wrong difficulty category. I dont think it was the scoresheet but wonder if perhaps some divisions had more qualified/experienced judges than others. I imagine you need a LOT of judges for a competition of that magnitude and wonder if there are enough judges out there with the level of training and experience needed to judge a competition of this level.
I posted after last year that I thought CHEERSPORT had gotten too big. Half of the convention center looked like refugee camps with air matresses, camp chairs and food and trash everywhere. You couldnt move in the arenas during the level 5 teams to the point it was dangerous in some situations. I cant imagine safe evacuation would have been possible in the event of an emergency. CHEERSPORT does an amazing job of keeping things running on time, giving the athletes great prizes, they make awards ceremonies special and quick, and overall do a LOT of things right, but I do think they need to make some adjustments if they are going to continue to grow.

Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk 2

The coach for my CP's team had to get the score recalculated. Not sure the reason why exactly since I haven't talked to her in detail about it.It actually moved us from #3 to #2.
From what I read and heard this was a common occurunce this weekend.

 

[12stepCheermom]

CHEERSPORT's scoring is 50/50. Like I said earlier, I dislike that because placements from Day 1 rarely change even if the performances were drastically different. That team that you mentioned with multiple bobbles and a stunt fall had a high day 1 score. average the 2 and they're still in second place. The teams getting 3rd - 6th with a better day 2 may not have had a great day 1. Their bad score is weighted just as heavily as their good score.

I don't like cheersport for that reason, and plenty of people love cheersport for that exact reason. it is what it is.

PS though, I would love an explanation from CHEERSPORT as to why so many divisions had to be rejudged and recalculated. whether it was legitimate or not, after one or two divisions it starts to look really sketchy.

I told my kids that when they went.... "You better hit on Saturday cause its 50/50 and (they said this with me) nobody moves!"

Then came Sunday.

I have never seen such wholesale reshuffling of divisions from one day to the next. Not even in a 25/75. In our division 8th came in first, one of our other teams had one drop Sunday (the rest was the same) and dropped from 3 to 8. Another moved from 7 to 4 (now they did have a much better sunday) It was like that all over the place. It seemed like Sundays judging panels were completely different than Saturdays. I saw a tweet from rockstar where their team hit essentially identical from Saturday to Sunday and scored a full point higher on Sunday.

I was completely baffled by how much movement I saw in a 50/50. It seemed completely random to me as a spectator (who "gets" raw score and the varsity grid).

 

[cheerheart4life]

I told my kids that when they went.... "You better hit on Saturday cause its 50/50 and (they said this with me) nobody moves!"

Then came Sunday.

I have never seen such wholesale reshuffling of divisions from one day to the next. Not even in a 25/75. In our division 8th came in first, one of our other teams had one drop Sunday (the rest was the same) and dropped from 3 to 8. Another moved from 7 to 4 (now they did have a much better sunday) It was like that all over the place. It seemed like Sundays judging panels were completely different than Saturdays. I saw a tweet from rockstar where their team hit essentially identical from Saturday to Sunday and scored a full point higher on Sunday.

I was completely baffled by how much movement I saw in a 50/50. It seemed completely random to me as a spectator (who "gets" raw score and the varsity grid).

That's really weird- Medium Coed 5 barely moved at all.

 

[King]

In the name of rational discussion (and not just going off of what we 'feel') could we post an example of when a bunch of people moved and shouldnt have, a bunch of people didn't move but should have, and people being scored incorrectly (with videos)? Seems like all the examples were tweeted and videos abound far and wide (and lots of have dartfish accounts). I'd love to see good examples and break them down and discuss them.

 

[JessicaL]

In the name of rational discussion (and not just going off of what we 'feel') could we post an example of when a bunch of people moved and shouldnt have, a bunch of people didn't move but should have, and people being scored incorrectly (with videos)? Seems like all the examples were tweeted and videos abound far and wide (and lots of have dartfish accounts). I'd love to see good examples and break them down and discuss them.

Have I missed something and the term "rational discussion" can now be used in reference to the Fierce Board? ;)