All-Star Club Divisions Vs International/open

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May 18, 2010
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ok, all of this talk of rule changes has left me thinkin... (I'm sure you all just can't wait for this one lol)

Do we really need a separate International? Why couldn't we keep the leveling system in place for athletes 18+ and consider it all part of an "international" division?

Mini- 1,2,3
Youth, Jr, Senior- 1,2,3, sr 4.2, 4,5
Adult (18+)- 4.2,4,5,6

Technically, then all of these divisions would be international. You could hold "amateur worlds" or somthing like that for levels 4.2 and 4 and then "elite worlds" for levels 5 and 6... same bid system in place for all. It would be a similar concept to the all levels, except it would be one large competition in one place. Leave all-levels as levels 1-3 only... thoughts?:)
 
ok, all of this talk of rule changes has left me thinkin... (I'm sure you all just can't wait for this one lol)

Do we really need a separate International? Why couldn't we keep the leveling system in place for athletes 18+ and consider it all part of an "international" division?

Mini- 1,2,3
Youth, Jr, Senior- 1,2,3, sr 4.2, 4,5
Adult (18+)- 4.2,4,5,6

Technically, then all of these divisions would be international. You could hold "amateur worlds" or somthing like that for levels 4.2 and 4 and then "elite worlds" for levels 5 and 6... same bid system in place for all. It would be a similar concept to the all levels, except it would be one large competition in one place. Leave all-levels as levels 1-3 only... thoughts?:)

Would love it if the I5 scoresheet wasnt stunt centric
 
ok, all of this talk of rule changes has left me thinkin... (I'm sure you all just can't wait for this one lol)

Do we really need a separate International? Why couldn't we keep the leveling system in place for athletes 18+ and consider it all part of an "international" division?

Mini- 1,2,3
Youth, Jr, Senior- 1,2,3, sr 4.2, 4,5
Adult (18+)- 4.2,4,5,6

Technically, then all of these divisions would be international. You could hold "amateur worlds" or somthing like that for levels 4.2 and 4 and then "elite worlds" for levels 5 and 6... same bid system in place for all. It would be a similar concept to the all levels, except it would be one large competition in one place. Leave all-levels as levels 1-3 only... thoughts?:)

I don't think there are enough 18+ athletes to have that many divisions.
 
I don't think there are enough 18+ athletes to have that many divisions.

I disagree. There are a ton of athletes. Its not like allstars disapear after 18. We just havent found the correct way to keep people participating.
 
I disagree. There are a ton of athletes. Its not like allstars disapear after 18. We just havent found the correct way to keep people participating.

There's already 4 divisions that allow athletes over 18 to keep cheering, and most of them don't have very many teams at competitions. Are you saying you think there would be more people willing to do open teams if there were lower levels? I've seen many level 3/4 tumblers/stunters do just fine on open 6 teams. Not that they should have to cheer on a level 6 team, but I don't think it's that big of a deterrent.
 
There's already 4 divisions that allow athletes over 18 to keep cheering, and most of them don't have very many teams at competitions. Are you saying you think there would be more people willing to do open teams if there were lower levels? I've seen many level 3/4 tumblers/stunters do just fine on open 6 teams. Not that they should have to cheer on a level 6 team, but I don't think it's that big of a deterrent.

I think GT (and in smaller ways Twist n Shout and Rust) scare people out of the division.

All Girl 6 has NO one compete. You could assemble a team of zombies and get top 3 (basically) but they dont. Why? With all the athletes something is scaring them off.
 
There's already 4 divisions that allow athletes over 18 to keep cheering, and most of them don't have very many teams at competitions. Are you saying you think there would be more people willing to do open teams if there were lower levels? I've seen many level 3/4 tumblers/stunters do just fine on open 6 teams. Not that they should have to cheer on a level 6 team, but I don't think it's that big of a deterrent.

Yes, I think more people would want to participate when they're older if there were lower levels. There would DEFINITELY be more international interest in such divisions, and I can tell you right now that I would cheer on a 4.2 in a second if it meant getting back out on the floor again. My body just cannot handle level 5 tumbling anymore. Plus, I think it would be good from a safety perspective too. How many times do you see a TRAGIC Open 6 team that can barely do one leg stunts, let alone tricks and 2.5 high pyramids!?
 
I think GT (and in smaller ways Twist n Shout and Rust) scare people out of the division.

All Girl 6 has NO one compete. You could assemble a team of zombies and get top 3 (basically) but they dont. Why? With all the athletes something is scaring them off.

I don't even think most gyms have enough athletes to make 2 level 6 teams. So if you have a boy - BOOM coed. And with regards to your first comment, I've cheered on open teams that never had a shot or any intention of going to any competition that competes against GT or T&S. You've probably only been on or around Worlds calibre open teams, but more teams than not are not on that level and have no intention of being so. I don't think there are many teams because it's hard to get a full team to commit and PAY.
 
Yes, I think more people would want to participate when they're older if there were lower levels. There would DEFINITELY be more international interest in such divisions, and I can tell you right now that I would cheer on a 4.2 in a second if it meant getting back out on the floor again. My body just cannot handle level 5 tumbling anymore. Plus, I think it would be good from a safety perspective too. How many times do you see a TRAGIC Open 6 team that can barely do one leg stunts, let alone tricks and 2.5 high pyramids!?

I don't come from All-Stars, I never did it or was around it until I was already in college. So seeing open teams that only do tuck tosses and full down from stunts (instead of doubling) doesn't bother me. They compete at smaller competitions and are aware of their abilities. High school and college don't split divisions by talent (well NCA has intermediate, but whatever). Seeing level 6 teams do level 4 skills doesn't phase me. They're not the only ones.

Although I can see the point of adding an open 4.2 or an open 4. But I don't think there's enough 18+ athletes for both.
 
I think adding lower levels for athletes 18+ would be great. I hate seeing level 6 teams that should really be level 4 or even sometimes level 3 because it scares the crap out me. From a safety standpoint it would be great to have atleast an Open 4.

I think some are scared of entering the level 6 divisions because they know that they don't have the skills to be a level 6 team. It is smart on their part to not risk injury. Give them a division and they won't be scared to compete.
 
I don't come from All-Stars, I never did it or was around it until I was already in college. So seeing open teams that only do tuck tosses and full down from stunts (instead of doubling) doesn't bother me. They compete at smaller competitions and are aware of their abilities. High school and college don't split divisions by talent (well NCA has intermediate, but whatever). Seeing level 6 teams do level 4 skills doesn't phase me. They're not the only ones.

Although I can see the point of adding an open 4.2 or an open 4. But I don't think there's enough 18+ athletes for both.

I don't know, I think a lot of gyms could produce level 4 or 4.2 for the 18+ range. How many of you belong to a gym with coaches who were once great, but really can't do as much as they used to? You could probably fill half an Open 4.2 team with staff alone lol... Even at a small gym, there are maybe 6 of us coaches that would cheer again, but we have a lot of kids who have graduated, aged out, and still live locally. They are DYING to cheer again:)
 
I don't know, I think a lot of gyms could produce level 4 or 4.2 for the 18+ range. How many of you belong to a gym with coaches who were once great, but really can't do as much as they used to? You could probably fill half an Open 4.2 team with staff alone lol... Even at a small gym, there are maybe 6 of us coaches that would cheer again, but we have a lot of kids who have graduated, aged out, and still live locally. They are DYING to cheer again:)

All of my open teams (level 6) have had most of the gym staff on the team - but we've also never been worlds calibre teams. You do what skills you're comfortable with. I kind of view Open 5 as the really serious/competitive division and Open 6 as the more fun/laid back one (though of course there are lots of great level 6 teams - and it's the better choice for male stunters). I think you're right though that lots of teams could field an open 4 or 4.2 It's not a bad idea, again, I just don't see the need for both. Have either open 4 or 4.2, open 5, and open 6.
 
All of my open teams (level 6) have had most of the gym staff on the team - but we've also never been worlds calibre teams. You do what skills you're comfortable with. I kind of view Open 5 as the really serious/competitive division and Open 6 as the more fun/laid back one (though of course there are lots of great level 6 teams - and it's the better choice for male stunters). I think you're right though that lots of teams could field an open 4 or 4.2 It's not a bad idea, again, I just don't see the need for both. Have either open 4 or 4.2, open 5, and open 6.

Yeah, I see what you mean. Well, my vote would be for 4.2 then lol
 
I think either 4.2 or 4 but not both, and I see 4.2 since it would be 14+ as being the more successful option. coaches plus your gyms weaker tumblers that might not fit in well on another team, the kid who just turned 19 on august 30 and the few kids who stayed home for college and your set
 
I'm so confused. After reading some threads I see that some people have an open 4.2 team, but I can't find anything anywhere about an open 4.2 division. Can someone please explain this to me? lol
 
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