All-Star Coaches Helping Out Other Gyms

[Just-a-Mom]

How do you guys feel about coaches "helping" at other gyms? I keep seeing this and I'm just baffled by it. At a competition last week I swear I just lived Bring It On. I sat and watched practically the exact same routine twice in a row. Then I find out that the coach of one gym had done choreography for the other. Her explanation? "Well i didn't think we'd ever compete against them!" :confused: The 2 gyms are 30 minutes apart!

(For the record the gym the coach works for took SECOND to the one she "helped out at"):oops:

Then I keep seeing on my Facebook feed posts from coaches that are going to other gyms to "work with" them. Aside from the obvious benefit of earning extra income...isn't this sort of a conflict of interest? Why would you go help out another team from another gym???

As a parent I would FLIP if I found out coaches I was paying for were helping other gyms "polish their routine" or worse choreograph it! I understand coaching and doing choreography for high school teams, but other allstar gyms? No way.


So my questions:
Parents/Athletes - am I crazy? or would this bother you? (Or both...:p)
Coaches - why do y'all do this???
Gym owners - doesn't this go against any policies you have? On either side of the issue - would you be mad if one of your coaches did this? Or if it is your gym hiring them...why? Why hire someone from another gym to just come in once or twice to help? What is wrong with using your own coaches?

 

[AndrewSky]

Uhmm.. I would flip of that was my coach. Snatch a hoe. Lol

 

[coachFIERCE]

Snatch a hoe.

I'm going to go out of my way from now on to use this saying at LEAST once every day.

 

[AndrewSky]

I'm going to go out of my way from now on to use this saying at LEAST once every day.

Bahahahaha! Well thank you!

 

[cscheerio]

*coach* This is crazy, we've helped polish routines but i would never choreograph two similar routines for clubs in the same city, probably not in the province, our provincials is huge and the teams would likely compete against each other.

 

[OMGitsMELANIE]

From an athletes point of view, honestly I would feel cheated. If a coach puts so much time and effort into their own team, why would they ever go and put in that same time and effort with another gym. I know my gym is like a family and I'm sure every other gym is as well, so why would you cheat on your family?
I also wonder if the gym owners from the coaches home gym knows that the coach is going to other gyms?

 

[cscheerio]

From an athletes point of view, honestly I would feel cheated. If a coach puts so much time and effort into their own team, why would they ever go and put in that same time and effort with another gym. I know my gym is like a family and I'm sure every other gym is as well, so why would you cheat on your family?
I also wonder if the gym owners from the coaches home gym knows that the coach is going to other gyms?

Is financial incentive maybe? Then a laziness issue when they don't choreograph a new routine

 

[ACEDAD]

I wouldn't be happy with a coach basically giving the same choreography to another gym.

But, lots of coaches do additional choreo or music or consulting for other gyms and schools. Happy spends most of his summer doing choreography (especially pyramids) for other teams. And I know a lot of ACE coaches do, even during the year.

They still have to meet their primary responsibility with ACE, but it gives them an opportunity to make extra money and hone their skills.

 

[OMGitsMELANIE]

Is financial incentive maybe? Then a laziness issue when they don't choreograph a new routine

Financial incentive is always a part of the equation. It's hard times right now and people will do anything for a buck. I understand, I work over 40 hours in 4 days out of the week. If I had an opportunity to make some extra cash, I would take it. But I was trying to make my point as an athlete.

 

[cscheerio]

Financial incentive is always a part of the equation. It's hard times right now and people will do anything for a buck. I understand, I work over 40 hours in 4 days out of the week. If I had an opportunity to make some extra cash, I would take it. But I was trying to make my point as an athlete.

I totally agree i'd be extremely hurt/angry if my coach did the same routine for a different team, she does help clean high school teams in our area our open team uses it as a fundraiser and most of our coaches help out during these clinic

 

[Rudags]

Just-a-Mom must have seen my Facebook statuses the past few weeks! Haha.

As a coach who does a lot of choreography and is friendly with gym owners and coaches from other gyms - I see no problem with this. I can't say I have ever helped out a team that has beat *MY* team - but I have done choreography or helped out other teams that has beat teams from within my gym that I coach.

I do think coaches need to be smart about it though. This weekend I worked with Indiana Ultimate. Spiced up their stunts, pyramid, and some transitions and just had a great time. My gym doesn't have a Small Coed 5 team, nor do I coach one, so I don't see any harm in that. I also have weekly 'Skype dates' with several other coaches in the industry. We talk about scoresheets, gym drama, etc.

I am GREAT friends with the staff of Hot Cheer (just to use an example) and we talk about stuff all the time on how to make our routines better, what we like/dont like about teams etc. They are helping me out and I am helping them out. Would a parent be upset if they knew I told a friends team to change their stunts to better max out the scoresheet and then they beat us?

I would hope I would never choreography a routine and then lose to it. My coaching skills should be a lot sharper than my chore skills. And if they aren't... that sucks.

 

[CGAcheer]

I'm an owner and a coach, our head coach/choreographer choreographs for other gyms but not for teams that are in our divisions.

A coach doing a clinic as a CGA coach is another thing I don't have a problem with, but actually working at another gym and trying to steal my kids will get you fired

 

[Just-a-Mom]

UltimateRudags it actually wasn't you. LOL

But my first example was ridiculous. 2 gyms less than half an hour apart, and a coach goes and "helps out" a team in the EXACT same division (size, level, etc.)??? And yes, one would hope that the original gym would have the skills and talent to perform the routine better, but I would imagine they sure didn't appreciate having their choreography (that was paid nicely for) essentially given away. Choreography ain't cheap, and if I pay for it for my cp I don't want it being given to someone else.

I guess I just don't understand giving a helping hand to another business, whether you're competing directly with them or not. I understand having a good relationship with other gyms...Lord knows I have PLENTY of mom friends from gyms we compete directly with, but I just don't understand going and helping out the competition. I mean you may not have a team in exactly the same division, but chances are you have teams in the same level. I'd still be pretty steamed if we lost grand champs, or a bid, or level champs, or whatever to a team that one of the coaches I pay good money for had helped.

 

[Rudags]

UltimateRudags it actually wasn't you. LOL

But my first example was ridiculous. 2 gyms less than half an hour apart, and a coach goes and "helps out" a team in the EXACT same division (size, level, etc.)??? And yes, one would hope that the original gym would have the skills and talent to perform the routine better, but I would imagine they sure didn't appreciate having their choreography (that was paid nicely for) essentially given away. Choreography ain't cheap, and if I pay for it for my cp I don't want it being given to someone else.

I guess I just don't understand giving a helping hand to another business, whether you're competing directly with them or not. I understand having a good relationship with other gyms...Lord knows I have PLENTY of mom friends from gyms we compete directly with, but I just don't understand going and helping out the competition. I mean you may not have a team in exactly the same division, but chances are you have teams in the same level. I'd still be pretty steamed if we lost grand champs, or a bid, or level champs, or whatever to a team that one of the coaches I pay good money for had helped.

I totally get your argument, and I think it comes down to good decision making from coaches as far as all of that goes. Most of my gyms staff comes from Louisville. They do Ultimate Speed Camps, A lot do other cheer things on the side. One of our coaches even went and worked with Shooting Stars a few weeks ago.

Nine years ago, I was in a place where I felt like I knew NOTHING! I made great friends along the way that helped educate me as a coach. Sharing how to play scoresheets, whats gonna score well, tips on coaching, etc. Hell, Im still on the dark about some issues (It seems some larger gyms find stuff out faster than us 'normal coaches') Why not share what strength we have with other programs? Although a business needs to grow, why not help the cheer world grow as a whole. That damned USASF Release Rule is already taking kids out of our industry. Why not share with others.

 

[dawgshow]

I'm torn. My first reaction was one that belonged in 18+ then I thought about it. I *think* that our gym has received help from a Georgia gym coach before, but don't quote me on that. I can see coaches going to other states to lend their expertise in a specific area, but I'd have a harder time if gym B which is 30 miles away sent a coach to gym A. For some completely illogical reason that seems wrong and a bit shady.
I know that other industries have cross-collaboration that actually strengthen the entire industry. I can see that being the case with cheer, as well. If Joe Bob has an emerging team and needs help increasing the difficulty or safety of a skill and Jimmy John is an expert in that area, then Jimmy John's help actually helps a small part of the industry grow and grow cleanly. Joe Bob's gym gets better which increases awareness and desire in the sport and the sport continues to grow and evolve.
So, long story short, I'm not sure how I feel :confused: