All-Star Competition Hierarchy

[CLynn]

I like your idea, I just think that the "different geography" part is why NCA is an important part to a lot of team's schedules and what makes it so prestigious. NCA is really the true nationals of cheer. Im skeptical to think it would remain what it is now if you removed the fact that it is the test run to the end game.

I hear you, I pretty much agree but I guess I am ok with calling NCA the true national and everything else can be considered a regional and yes test run if you will. With computers, flocheer/varsitytv etc I think we pretty much know what our competition looks like even if we haven't seen them in person. I am also ok with one end of the season national for levels below World's.

 

[Keep_Believing]

I hear you, I pretty much agree but I guess I am ok with calling NCA the true national and everything else can be considered a regional and yes test run if you will. With computers, flocheer/varsitytv etc I think we pretty much know what our competition looks like even if we haven't seen them in person. I am also ok with one end of the season national for levels below World's.

Yes, but seeing a video and getting to compete against them are very different.

 

[CLynn]

Yes, but seeing a video and getting to compete against them are very different.

Sure, I guess I am just ok if it happens to be once at the end of the year. We don't see some of our "top" competition at NCA anyway bc they have so many crossovers they skip and show up for Summit. If there were to be a mid-season nationals and an end of season nationals I guess I'd be ok with that too. I'm just converted to the idea of bids and chasing bids being a pointless wallet drainer and for the younger levels particularly would love to see a cap on it.

 

[SthrnCheerMom]

Fair enough. The majority of our athletes don't deal with that at NCA, so our experience is different. Also, it is more of a "value" consideration than purely "cost". I don't mind paying for items that bring value, but I think the venues at WWS are not great for cheer at all - most disappointingly the newest one.

Worlds has gotten a little better, but the event logistics at both Summit and Worlds have typically been below that of nearly every other competition we attend each year. We have had more than the normal share of issues with check-in, warmups, staying on schedule, communication of results/scoring, scoring in general, awards, and general organization at the events. The services Disney provides are usually fine, but the EP part hasn't been.

Both Worlds and Summit have had astonishingly bad years from an organizational point of view (Looking at you D1 Summit 2018) that have probably soured me permanently on WWS as a cheer venue. If our experience there had been great, I wouldn't mind the cost as much.

Our first Summit experience was this past one. Prior, I learned more about it through this board and others that went. After having been to upteen Cheersports and 2 NCAs, I will totally agree with you on this.

I think one of the draws and strengths of NCA, that no other comp has going for it right now, is that it's pretty much the only time all season you get unlimited access to teams from every level from all corners of the country before you see them again at Summit or Worlds. ("Unlimited" meaning you don't need a bid to attend, you can just sign up and go.) Pretty much anyone who's anyone goes to NCA regardless of where they're coming from. Gyms usually stick to their respective regions except for NCA and Worlds/Summit. (Especially Summit teams.) It's the only time gyms can actually compete against most of their top competition at once before they get to Worlds/Summit. It's like a trial run for how competitive your routine is. Cheersport is a close-but-not-too-close second.

I will agree with you on this as well. This will be our 3rd NCA and that is exactly why we have been going. To really get an idea of who we will be up against at Summit.

This will be our 8th Cheersport. I do enjoy CS but will say NCA is a bit smoother. We are attending SOH for the first time with our current gym. We have been once before with our previous gym. It was by far the best run comp. The way they get the parents in and out for viewing is smooth. So we are excited to be going back.

 

[Keep_Believing]

Yes, just fun and exciting. We get to watch our favorite teams from all levels. The arena is amazing! Award ceremonies are fast and efficient. I hate long drawn out award ceremonies. We live in Texas so we are a little biased! LOL :)

 

[Knowcheering]

No doubt I'd rank NCA the highest among non-Worlds events. It's the last National that still feels relatively national, and the fact that crossovers are highly restricted makes the competition feel the most legitimate. The Varsity scoresheet has many shortcomings, but NCA judging often makes the most sense to me.

Cheersport used to be a bigger deal before Worlds became important. Now it's a "regional National" like the others. It has large participation, but when they split the non-Worlds divisions 7824 different ways, it's not any tougher of a competition than most other decent-sized Nationals. It really depends who's in your specific division. The Summit is killing a lot of the non-Worlds divisions. With many gyms in D2, the amount of competition for D1 teams has really dwindled at the majority of events. You used to not have to travel halfway across the country to find quality competition for your level 2 team. You used to be able to find well-attended local 1-day competitions (that didn't offer bids to anything!)

The Summit is general seems to be doing more harm than good (I think Level 6 is slowly dying among non-powerhouse gyms in part because of Summit). But parents insisted on their beginner Level 1 kids going to a big event at the end of the year. If it wasn't about the money and Di$$$ney World, we could eliminate the Summit and get back to NCA being the big National.

 

[CLynn]

With many gyms in D2, the amount of competition for D1 teams has really dwindled at the majority of events. You used to not have to travel halfway across the country to find quality competition for your level 2 team. You used to be able to find well-attended local 1-day competitions (that didn't offer bids to anything!)

I noticed this for sure last year, haven't competed enough yet this season to see if stays same this year.

 

[KPep]

With the comments I get about NCA, I would choose it to be first. However, as someone coming from Canada, I have to place Worlds first. As long as Worlds welcome more international teams than NCA, for me, it'll stay first. I do understand that it is a "national" championship though.

 

[Bella's mom]

With the comments I get about NCA, I would choose it to be first. However, as someone coming from Canada, I have to place Worlds first. As long as Worlds welcome more international teams than NCA, for me, it'll stay first. I do understand that it is a "national" championship though.

NCA doesn’t accept a lot of international teams? I thought that was the reason for doing the international levels? We have 3 teams competing International this year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BlueCat]

NCA doesn’t accept a lot of international teams? I thought that was the reason for doing the international levels? We have 3 teams competing International this year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Anyone from anywhere can sign up for NCA, I think she just means NCA doesn't have as many non-US teams as Worlds.

 

[Bella's mom]

Anyone from anywhere can sign up for NCA, I think she just means NCA doesn't have as many non-US teams as Worlds.

So that would just be the teams not signing up, not NCA accepting them. Gotcha. Makes more sense


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wishfulthinking]

How does One Up fair in this lineup? Don’t quite a few teams attend since it’s the last competition before Worlds?

 

[Keep_Believing]

How does One Up fair in this lineup? Don’t quite a few teams attend since it’s the last competition before Worlds?

Just my opinion, it wouldn't even make the list.

 

[UCFKnights07]

gosh im old. I attend worlds as an athlete in 2006 and 2007, it wasnt super new, but new enough that i feel like teams werent desperately chasing a ring at that point in the earlier years. 2007 was the year i felt like it had blown up to craziness level at least for me. Now looking back im jealous that i couldnt compete in some of the much later iconic years. Back then i think NCA still was the highlight of the season.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

Although the differences aren't as great now that a single conglomerate owns nearly all of them, NCA is generally the smoothest run and well-judged of all of the events. It has a history none of the others can touch. It was also the first company to truly embrace the "all star style". The arena during finals is unmatched in terms of production, "vibe", sight lines, and noise.

Worlds and Summit and the bid-chase culture they have brought to the sport have positives, but they also come with significant negatives for the sport. Immense added cost is one of those negatives. I have also never been particularly impressed with Disney from a value perspective. The added cost is huge and the competition venues are average at best.

For many years NCA was to all star cheer what UCA is to high school cheer.

Even at the collegiate level: NCA was to the all star style what UCA was to the crowd-leading style.

A lot of the younger people, and even older ones who are still relatively young in Cheer age, are completely unaware of the level of competition between UCA and NCA. They don’t know about the “brand wars” from when COA, JamFest, WCA (is this even still a thing?), ACA, WSF, Cheersport, etc were all upstarts trying get their foot in the door offering their own individual incentives to attend their events.

Many of them have missed the days when you might make major changes to your routine from competition to competition because tumbling was 7 million points at one competition, and you had to have a minimum of 14 8-counts of dance to max your score at another.

Rewinds were legal at NCA college nationals but not at UCA college nationals.

When Jeff bought out NCA, creating the FIRST cheer-opoly, the industry actually experienced a pretty good upswing. A lot of things that needed to happen, happened. There was some consistency in rules across college cheer. The initial formation of USASF brought more safety consistency. Even Worlds, in its infancy was a great concept that has been bastardized by the “everyone gets a bid” mentality. There are teams that earn bids today that would have never gotten a bid the first year or two even putting their current routines up against the routines of the past.

JamFest started to buy up some smaller comp companies creating competition and keeping it all honest. Then the SECOND cheer-opoly occurred. Virtually nothing good has come from that buyout. There’s no one keeping the Varsity machine honest.

By the way, my question mark by WCA was tongue-in-cheek. As I recall, they were the last holdout against USASF, and I’m pretty sure they went under. You may have a different history regarding that organization. They disappeared during a brief time when I wasn’t paying a whole lot of attention to who was offering competitions because I had taken a coaching break.