All-Star Discuss Your Usasf Struggles Here

[RaRaMama]

This is what a gym owner told me. And if it is true that dabbing is banned I see why as it relates to drugs and that's not something that cheerleading stands for or promotes

This isn't really directed at you personally at all, but reading this tickled me. Like let's take out a dance move that isn't really even drug related because it's not "appropriate", let's worry about the size of bows or showing our stomachs, let's not hug each other too much before we compete or get too excited when we hit.

BUT making our mat like an ice skating rink in spots without ice skates? We're cool with that. No problem. So what if kids are slipping all over the place. So what if we took world class athletes and put them in an environment they've never competed in with conditions that could easily be life threatening (and no, that's not an exaggeration).

This was a much MUCH smaller scale but there were some safety issues with my daughters high school coach and a lot of parents were thinking it, talking about it, but were afraid to speak up. They were stunting/tumbling on the high school stage because they couldn't get gym time. Kids who had very little experience with tumbling spotting kids on a wood floor. I spoke up because, hello, broken neck, concussion, etc?

The answer was "if you don't want your kid doing it, just tell her not to." Less than two weeks later, two girls hit the floor and both ended up with bad concussions. Lawsuit city right there. Maybe if there had been more people speaking up, there would be more pressure to change the behavior.

I would absolutely LOVE to see the "big gyms" and the small ones too for that matter boycott Worlds. Like I get it, it's a huge deal but with the money those gyms have, and the skill multiple gyms have at running successful businesses AND looking out for the safety of athletes-let's take over Disney for a whole week, run an all levels "Worlds" or "Summit" or whatever you want to call it, get some brands like Nfinity and Rebel on board (and whoever else wants to join in).

I'm not saying it would be easy, but at some point the people who are putting in all this money (parents) and the people who are putting in all this time and energy (kids and coaches) HAVE to demand better. This isn't just about a red section of a mat being slippery or gates being taped shut. This is about making a governing body actual govern in a way that supports the mission of the sport. The worst thing any of us can do is sit back and let it continue as is.

 

[ChoreographyInTheBack]

Excellent points!

I am not at all surprised the athletes didn't feel they could say anything / refuse to perform, especially the way this industry (not sport) handles injuries. How many times have we discussed in the past when is the right time to stop a routine due to an injury. Didn't two athletes collide head on and they still finished the routine? If there was debate over that incident, I can certainly see how "excuse me USASF, the floor is wet" would fall on deaf ear$.

Stopping the routine probably isn't entirely up to USASF. At most competitions, it's up to the coaches. Not sure if it's the same at Worlds but I assume it is. I busted and broke my neck on the floor at one of the triple crown competitions one year (don't want to say which one bc don't want to identify myself for those who don't already know who I am). We finished the routine because my coach saw that I was up and decided not to stop the music.

 

[Official OWECheer]

In retrospect, all of those #WeChooseVarsity tweets are inciting a dry, melancholy chuckle from me.

You choose them, but they will NEVER choose your kids. This year was only more proof of that.

 

[MomMomMamaMom]

Cheetahs were the next-to-last team to compete in LC. To my knowledge, none of them said anything to the coaches immediately after they competed about the floor being wet. I'm not saying it was dry, just that I don't believe the coaches were immediately aware of any issues. The first I knew about problems with the floor was when the Panther girl obviously slipped after her tumbling pass. We told the USASF that the floor was wet immediately after their routine - before SE and Orange performed.

Have any Cheetahs athletes since said it was wet while they performed?

And if you are comfortable, can you tell us what the USASF's reps response was to Panthers making them aware the floor was wet?

I can see how an athlete may not be able to get the info across to the right people immediately in the hustle and bustle, but I also wonder about if the spotters shouldn't have noticed the conditions and relayed it. If they are safety representatives, I feel like they should have said something about unsafe conditions.

ETA: maybe their duties ( spotters) can be clarified and potentially expanded?

 

[BlueCat]

Have any Cheetahs athletes since said it was wet while they performed?

And if you are comfortable, can you tell us what the USASF's reps response was to Panthers making them aware the floor was wet?

I can see how an athlete may not be able to get the info across to the right people immediately in the hustle and bustle, but I also wonder about if the spotters shouldn't have noticed the conditions and relayed it. If they are safety representatives, I feel like they should have said something about unsafe conditions.

ETA: maybe their duties ( spotters) can be clarified and potentially expanded?

I haven't heard any Cheetahs say that. That doesn't mean that it was dry - just that I haven't personally heard a Cheetah say anything about it. The USASF officials we told I believe just had someone run out with a towel and wipe down the red mat. After SE went, the red mat still looked wet. I don't know if had gotten wet again, or if the original wipe-down was ineffective. It wasn't until after Orange went that we figured out that the blue mat was wet also and had probably been wet for several teams.

It is worth noting that it doesn't take a huge amount of dampness to potentially have an impact on a performance. If it increases the chance of missing a skill just a couple of percentage points, that really adds up over the 100s of skills that happen in a large senior 5 routine. Without doing the math, I would think that even just making each skill 1% less likely to hit could take your probability of a zero-mistake routine from around 50% to less than 1%.

 

[MomMomMamaMom]

I haven't heard any Cheetahs say that. That doesn't mean that it was dry - just that I haven't personally heard a Cheetah say anything about it. The USASF officials we told I believe just had someone run out with a towel and wipe down the red mat. After SE went, the red mat still looked wet. I don't know if had gotten wet again, or if the original wipe-down was ineffective. It wasn't until after Orange went that we figured out that the blue mat was wet also and had probably been wet for several teams.

It is worth noting that it doesn't take a huge amount of dampness to potentially have an impact on a performance. If it increases the chance of missing a skill just a couple of percentage points, that really adds up over the 100s of skills that happen in a large senior 5 routine. Without doing the math, I would think that even just making each skill 1% less likely to hit could take your probability of a zero-mistake routine from around 50% to less than 1%.

Thanks for responding. Mathematically those numbers are pretty astounding. Those aside, I'd hate to see the increased probability of injury... I have no doubt that there will be a push to improve the conditions for these divisions in the future. But I'm also interested in if there is a feasible way to intervene when/if conditions become out of standards during the course of a competition. ( I feel like last year the floor also had issues? Maybe that was just speculation?)

My first thought was that since there are safety representatives approved to be on the floor, their reporting requirements should be increased. But as I think about it, I see that this would also potentially increase USASF liability, because if they didn't report something it might then be their responsibility, so I don't know....

 

[idrive]

I hope that those big 3 pissed off coaches (and any others who agree with them) bring this up again. In my ideal world, the entire cheer community would refuse to attend any USASF event until they change things.

Is there any way that this could become a legal issue? Is it possible to sue USASF for not following their rules and endangering the athletes. I know the last part is extreme but technically, someone could pull out that argument for poor condition.

I like where your head is on this but problem is if you boycott USASF you boycott Varsity who owns way too much of this industry in my opinion. The USASF doesn't have to make any changes because they don't really have any competition at the moment. I'm hoping what we will see is someone with some business savvy go after USASF/Varsity on the issue of what is in my opinion a monopoly. I have a few ideas on who could do it, one by themselves or collectively with some other smaller independents.

Ultimately we need to help drive the change and garner support along the way. Seek and attend non Varsity events which will effect the USASF directly. We need more gyms such as Cheer Extreme to be vocal about their distain for how the USASF continues to handle our industry and ultimately our athletes.

 

[dawgshow]

I keep hearing over the years "support the IEP's" yet in the next breath people berate the small events, making fun of them. It takes time to build into something large and I haven't noticed a lot of patient participants in the cheer world.


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[cheernerd5678]

I keep hearing over the years "support the IEP's" yet in the next breath people berate the small events, making fun of them. It takes time to build into something large and I haven't noticed a lot of patient participants in the cheer world.


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THIS

 

[cheer25mom]

I keep hearing over the years "support the IEP's" yet in the next breath people berate the small events, making fun of them. It takes time to build into something large and I haven't noticed a lot of patient participants in the cheer world.


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Part of the issue with that is finding good IEP's that follow basic safety procedures, adhere to consistent judging standards, ect. They are few and far between in our area. Much more common are fly by the seat of our pants, buy a banner type comps.

 

[SarahS]

Part of the issue with that is finding good IEP's that follow basic safety procedures, adhere to consistent judging standards, ect. They are few and far between in our area. Much more common are fly by the seat of our pants, buy a banner type comps.

There are lots of good IEPs that are USASF sanctioned and must follow USASF standards; they just don't have the "benefit" of being under a large EP umbrella and the marketing juggernaut that goes with that. If you're in the southeast part of the country, Deep South and Victory Athletics Spirit are both excellent EPs that 1) are USASF sanctioned and follow all USASF rules and 2) really strive to make sure that EVERY result in EVERY division is correct. I highly, highly recommend them.

 

[BlueCat]

I keep hearing over the years "support the IEP's" yet in the next breath people berate the small events, making fun of them. It takes time to build into something large and I haven't noticed a lot of patient participants in the cheer world.

We have had great experiences with several IEPs over the years, including Spirit Celebration, Cheer America, and United Cheer. Many offer tremendous value for your entry fee dollar. We would attend them far more often if it weren't for the pressure from parents to attend Summit bid events.

 

[cheer25mom]

There are lots of good IEPs that are USASF sanctioned and must follow USASF standards; they just don't have the "benefit" of being under a large EP umbrella and the marketing juggernaut that goes with that. If you're in the southeast part of the country, Deep South and Victory Athletics Spirit are both excellent EPs that 1) are USASF sanctioned and follow all USASF rules and 2) really strive to make sure that EVERY result in EVERY division is correct. I highly, highly recommend them.

We know of those 2, and have competed at events form both., although not this year. The biggest local event is outdoors in April, and we as parents requested not to have to sit in the heat and sun all day. There are many others I won't name here who we will never go back to, either due to safety or scoring issues, and still others we knew were not up to standard and steered clear of. There seem to be more bad IEP's than good in our immediate area right now, just based on what I am seeing, but the two you names are definitely solid and above board. I didn't mean to give the impression that they were all problematic, far from it, but we have seen a rash of questionable ones.

 

[kaylalalaxo]

We have had great experiences with several IEPs over the years, including Spirit Celebration, Cheer America, and United Cheer. Many offer tremendous value for your entry fee dollar. We would attend them far more often if it weren't for the pressure from parents to attend Summit bid events.

Spirit celebration was always my favorite in DFW. Always local and Billy Smith is amazing and is so giving and makes the comps fun

 

[5-6-7-8]

We have had great experiences with several IEPs over the years, including Spirit Celebration, Cheer America, and United Cheer. Many offer tremendous value for your entry fee dollar. We would attend them far more often if it weren't for the pressure from parents to attend Summit bid events.

Bolded part = truth. Just felt it needed to be reiterated. :)