All-Star Discuss Your Usasf Struggles Here

[UCFKnights07]

That remains the question of worlds finals - no one seems to know.

i mean i want to guess and say F5 and orange were the only ones that didnt want a redo. (orange probably figured even with the mistakes they were still going to win, and they probably never imagined F5 would jump that high in rankings even after hitting day 2)
and i figure the rest of large senior probably wanted a redo.
@BlueCat did CA vote yes on a redo.

 

[MomMomMamaMom]

Perhaps most importantly, voting for a do-over involves trusting USASF to hastily throw together a new schedule and create a safe, fair environment for finals in 20 hours, when the entire event had been a @#$ show after a year of planning. (Problems extended FAR beyond the baseball field.)

I hadn't considered this, but my goodness, I can see how that would have been a gamble!

 

[Eyes On The Prize]

i mean i want to guess and say F5 and orange were the only ones that didnt want a redo. (orange probably figured even with the mistakes they were still going to win, and they probably never imagined F5 would jump that high in rankings even after hitting day 2)
and i figure the rest of large senior probably wanted a redo.
@BlueCat did CA vote yes on a redo.

He said it never actually came to a vote.

 

[MomMomMamaMom]

i mean i want to guess and say F5 and orange were the only ones that didnt want a redo. (orange probably figured even with the mistakes they were still going to win, and they probably never imagined F5 would jump that high in rankings even after hitting day 2)
and i figure the rest of large senior probably wanted a redo.
@BlueCat did CA vote yes on a redo.

I am fairly certain that WC thought they had won, their fans certainly did. But it has also been said that there wasn't a vote. And since it had to be unanimous, and there were the teams who went into the finals on the thought they might place 4th-10th who came out of finals looking like they had a chance to globe, or place top five, I can't imagine there would have been a consensus regardless.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

One has to factor in the mass confusion and frustration of the situation. It is easy to arm-chair-quarterback at home weeks later and theorize how you would "vote". It was a cluster-f after the last team went and coaches were scattered all over the place. You have to factor in the fact that the teams had already performed what they thought was finals. At least one team thought they had likely just won Worlds and didn't think the floor affected them. You can theorize all you want about "I don't care that we probably won a world championship, I would willingly give that up so the USASF event could be xx% more fair" but that simply isn't reality for ANY coach.

Perhaps most importantly, voting for a do-over involves trusting USASF to hastily throw together a new schedule and create a safe, fair environment for finals in 20 hours, when the entire event had been a @#$ show after a year of planning. (Problems extended FAR beyond the baseball field.)

Yes!

This was a LOSE - LOSE situation.

In the heat of the moment, there would have been no way to handle it that would satisfy all parties.

If you had to re-do, you'd be salty about scrapping a hit routine for a re-do.

In the current NO do-over situation, folks are salty about not having another shot.

If they pushed finals to the next day, folks would be salty about throwing off kid's schedules. And the mental stress of recompeting.

There was no way to send everyone home happy with how the situation was resolved.

 

[BlueCat]

i mean i want to guess and say F5 and orange were the only ones that didnt want a redo. (orange probably figured even with the mistakes they were still going to win, and they probably never imagined F5 would jump that high in rankings even after hitting day 2)
and i figure the rest of large senior probably wanted a redo.
@BlueCat did CA vote yes on a redo.

I never cast a vote with anyone from the USASF. For that matter, I don't recall even remotely indicating anything one way or another to anyone in authority. It makes for a much simpler and cooler-sounding story if the coaches all stood in a big circle with a big thumbs-up or thumbs-down, but that just isn't remotely how it all went down. I mentioned to one of the coaches of another team how we were leaning at the time given the little that we knew at that point, but by then I hadn't even spoken to all of our coaches. Again, it was clear that it wasn't going to be unanimous so there wasn't really a perceived need to declare one way or another or pursue it much further. Mostly, it was just a mass of frustration and confusion. It was hard to wrap your mind around the concept of potentially competing again when it is midnight after finals at Worlds.

I won't share the specifics of any discussion with any other coach, other than to say that coaches' statements afterwards don't necessarily match up with what they said to me during the discussion. It is entirely possible that what they said to me was before they had all of the information, talked to all of their staff, and/or altered their opinion, because that sort of happened with us. When one of them says "I think we are leaning towards being a YES/NO", that isn't like a formal declaration of a vote. It was just everyone trying to get a handle on how everyone else was thinking.

The blame for the situation lies solely with USASF, in my opinion. The event desperately needed to have someone in charge with the fortitude to stop the event when it became unfair, unsafe, and/or in direct violation of their own rules. Trying to find some coach, athlete, or gym owner to "blame" for any part of that mess is entirely missing the point, IMO.

 

[Beans100]

Yes!

This was a LOSE - LOSE situation.

In the heat of the moment, there would have been no way to handle it that would satisfy all parties.

If you had to re-do, you'd be salty about scrapping a hit routine for a re-do.

In the current NO do-over situation, folks are salty about not having another shot.

If they pushed finals to the next day, folks would be salty about throwing off kid's schedules. And the mental stress of recompeting.

There was no way to send everyone home happy with how the situation was resolved.

But this is why there are rules. In any situation, there will always be someone who is unhappy. Life isn't fair.
I don't blame the coaches for being confused or for saying whatever they said. The situation was a mess. I still believe that USASF should have forgotten the little pow-wow and said, "we will have a re-do tomorrow and if you don't like it, you can drop out." This is the equivalent of a teacher misgrading 100 final exams, and some people still did okay but a lot of people unexpectedly failed. The teacher then asks the students if they want to do it over on a day of summer vacation.

 

[Cheeranswers]

I hadn't considered this, but my goodness, I can see how that would have been a gamble!

but it shouldn't have been. they planned an outdoor event, weather permitting. they had a rain date. there should have been nothing to plan. They had the space for it. they had time allocated for it. it would/should have been easy.

 

[MomMomMamaMom]

but it shouldn't have been. they planned an outdoor event, weather permitting. they had a rain date. there should have been nothing to plan. They had the space for it. they had time allocated for it. it would/should have been easy.

Also true, as should all the programs have known that the logistics of having their athletes available for the next night had already been worked out., But given that main event was already a fiasco, believing that the make up would be better would be a long shot.

Nonetheless, I agree that it should not be a decision that was left in the hands of the programs. Ultimately, the USASF should have a procedure in place to evaluate the safety and fairness of the event as it is occurring, and a solid event plan to activate the make up procedure when necessary.

 

[MissCongeniality]

Also true, as should all the programs have known that the logistics of having their athletes available for the next night had already been worked out., But given that main event was already a fiasco, believing that the make up would be better would be a long shot.

Nonetheless, I agree that it should not be a decision that was left in the hands of the programs. Ultimately, the USASF should have a procedure in place to evaluate the safery and fairness of the event as it is occurring, and a solid event plan to activate the make up procedure when necessary.

I think too often the problem in cheer is "seeing is believing". Like when your child comes in with a cast on their broken bones... the coaches get it (somewhat) but when they come in due to a concussion (nothing to see) too often the response is "ok, can you just base and not tumble" (or something along those lines)

Had it rained with lots of lightening and thunder... USASF would use their contingency plan (mouse ears would have insisted) But the dew on the mats was like that concussion...

 

[BlueCat]

but it shouldn't have been. they planned an outdoor event, weather permitting. they had a rain date. there should have been nothing to plan. They had the space for it. they had time allocated for it. it would/should have been easy.

It also should have been easy to not run an hour behind when you only have 20 competing teams, but clearly that didn't happen. The wet mats were the most visible, talked-about problem of the weekend, but there were many more unexcusable issues with the event all weekend. All of our athletes deserve far better.

 

[MomMomMamaMom]

I think too often the problem in cheer is "seeing is believing". Like when your child comes in with a cast on their broken bones... the coaches get it (somewhat) but when they come in due to a concussion (nothing to see) too often the response is "ok, can you just base and not tumble" (or something along those lines)

Had it rained with lots of lightening and thunder... USASF would use their contingency plan (mouse ears would have insisted) But the dew on the mats was like that concussion...

Great analogy. This is why I thought earlier that the supposedly safety qualified spotters should certainly be reporting unsafe conditions on the mat to someone, and should perhaps be given some procedure for initiating an investigation at least.

I think the multiple injuries on the mat last Worlds were also concussions... And should have upped the observation/ safety measures this year.

I also think that the argument that USASF violating their warmup and compete time rules ( which is the only issue I feel like they actually addressed) was the only one I can actually see why there would be chaos about, and why they would allow input from the programs on whether this mandated a do over. I have no problem with teams demanding this rule be followed in the future. But I definitely see that since it was okay last year, and at several other bid comps during the season, why the USASF would struggle with making that decision at the time.

 

[Cheeranswers]

It also should have been easy to not run an hour behind when you only have 20 competing teams, but clearly that didn't happen. The wet mats were the most visible, talked-about problem of the weekend, but there were many more unexcusable issues with the event all weekend. All of our athletes deserve far better.

I 100% agree! It's the 3rd year out there. they should have it together by now, or call it quits (usasf please choose the second option). I know from watching that most people weren't into the dance teams. why were they there? the whole night was so drawn out and a mess. do you guys have any say as to if its going to be outside again?

 

[kristenthegreat]

but it shouldn't have been. they planned an outdoor event, weather permitting. they had a rain date. there should have been nothing to plan. They had the space for it. they had time allocated for it. it would/should have been easy.

That's what still gets me the most about this situation.

Cheer has never been meant to be performed outdoors (minus in a basic game-day situation in which you're not throwing crazy tumbling/stunts anyway). I get that there's overcrowding, but this should NEVER have been an option, particularly without a tent or something to protect against elements. Both of these last two years have had the 'infamous Worlds Day 4' situation spring up and we were all already there anyway for actual competition on Monday. There are plenty, PLENTY of measures that could be put in place, and there is the ENTIRE year (particularly the summer when no competitions are happening) to plan for this. This should never have been a complicated decision. There is zero reason for this to be a complicated decision. Any, ANY OUTDOOR EVENT should have measures in place to check for weather issues and performance safety. Period. End of discussion. The USASF should have made the call long ago and didn't. Athletes lives and safety were at risk, they failed in their mission abominably. Hush money don't cover that.

@BlueCat I know in the past you have alluded to problems at Worlds, not sure if there are any in particular you'd like to share? I know there's the brouhaha surrounding Large Senior/Coed, but I'm actually curious about other issues.

 

[BlueCat]

That's what still gets me the most about this situation.

Cheer has never been meant to be performed outdoors (minus in a basic game-day situation in which you're not throwing crazy tumbling/stunts anyway). I get that there's overcrowding, but this should NEVER have been an option, particularly without a tent or something to protect against elements. Both of these last two years have had the 'infamous Worlds Day 4' situation spring up and we were all already there anyway for actual competition on Monday. There are plenty, PLENTY of measures that could be put in place, and there is the ENTIRE year (particularly the summer when no competitions are happening) to plan for this. This should never have been a complicated decision. There is zero reason for this to be a complicated decision. Any, ANY OUTDOOR EVENT should have measures in place to check for weather issues and performance safety. Period. End of discussion. The USASF should have made the call long ago and didn't. Athletes lives and safety were at risk, they failed in their mission abominably. Hush money don't cover that.

@BlueCat I know in the past you have alluded to problems at Worlds, not sure if there are any in particular you'd like to share? I know there's the brouhaha surrounding Large Senior/Coed, but I'm actually curious about other issues.

I sent a lengthy email to all of the USASF Board members detailing some of the main issues I have with Worlds and the USASF in general. I would like to give them a little more time to potentially respond to those before I start airing out those issues publicly.