All-Star Division Jumping?

[2yearcheermom]

Question 1: Should teams have to declare a division at the beginning of the year and stick to it?

Question 2: Should a team be allowed to compete Restricted Level 5 once they have earned an at large bid to worlds?

 

[MissCongeniality]

There have been many discussions about this. I've seen explanations including "injury" "finally getting level right" and others. I think a majority in the cheer world see it for what it is and don't think it should be allowed.

The reality is that the current rules do not prevent it, so it is perfectly legal.

 

[12stepCheermom]

To the first, I think you do what you need to do to ensure your team is competitive as the season goes along (newcomers, people who left, injuries).

To the second, it's totally legal but it's completely unethical in my opinion. If you were good enough at some point to get an at large bid to Worlds, unless you're entire team fell apart with the answer to question one I just think it's sandbagging. Not that sandbagging is illegal.


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[fierceboardmama]

I dont think staying with in level 5 is sandbagging. This gets tricky, honestly I think a gym owner or coach needs to do whats best for the team. Sometimes they may have had higher hopes more of the kids or the team would be able to acheive more elite skills, maybe the team is new , maybe there were some key athletes who are no longer on the team. Each gym that may do this has their own reasons. Some may not like it. BUT.. If Restricted 5 was still considered a Worlds division wich I wish it was, this question wouldnt need to be asked the athletes of a restricted team work just as hard as a non restricted team. I personally think of sandbagging as taking a whole level 5 team and dropping them down to a level 3 or 4. ect.

 

[cheermomforever]

I dont think staying with in level 5 is sandbagging. This gets tricky, honestly I think a gym owner or coach needs to do whats best for the team. Sometimes they may have had higher hopes more of the kids or the team would be able to acheive more elite skills, maybe the team is new , maybe there were some key athletes who are no longer on the team. Each gym that may do this has their own reasons. Some may not like it. BUT.. If Restricted 5 was still considered a Worlds division wich I wish it was, this question wouldnt need to be asked the athletes of a restricted team work just as hard as a non restricted team. I personally think of sandbagging as taking a whole level 5 team and dropping them down to a level 3 or 4. ect.

I agree, not much difference between 5 and r5, I just saw a team last weekend compete level 2 with 5 or so girls in 5 uniforms. That is where it is annoying! As for summit u can qualify with say lg team of 24 and at summit bring 32. U should bring the number u qualify with, same as worlds,


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[CheerMomNTx]

I dont think staying with in level 5 is sandbagging. This gets tricky, honestly I think a gym owner or coach needs to do whats best for the team. Sometimes they may have had higher hopes more of the kids or the team would be able to acheive more elite skills, maybe the team is new , maybe there were some key athletes who are no longer on the team. Each gym that may do this has their own reasons. Some may not like it. BUT.. If Restricted 5 was still considered a Worlds division wich I wish it was, this question wouldnt need to be asked the athletes of a restricted team work just as hard as a non restricted team. I personally think of sandbagging as taking a whole level 5 team and dropping them down to a level 3 or 4. ect.

I understand maybe having to drop down because an athlete is injured and the only fill in was a 10 or 11 year old. However if the team is doing it for the heck of it, it's a disadvantage for that team if they want to be successful at Worlds. There are components in restricted that can't be done and I would think that a World's team would want to perform those skills as many times as possible before the big show. Now's not a time to water down a World's caliber routine.

 

[Mclovin]

My opinion on question #1 -- I can understand trying to be competitive in one level the first half the year then realize for your nationals season you need to drop a level to be competitive. I have no problem with this. It is frustrating knowing my true level 3 team is competing against a team that was even good enough to TRY level 4, but I do understand the reasons behind that decision.

My opinion on question #2 -- If your team isn't good enough to contend in a true worlds division and you have to drop to R5 to be competitive, you shouldn't be at worlds to begin with. Too many at-large bids still being handed out. However, I have heard that next year the number of at-large bids an EP is allowed to give out is dropping. So maybe that'll help with this problem.

 

[12stepCheermom]

My opinion on question #1 -- I can understand trying to be competitive in one level the first half the year then realize for your nationals season you need to drop a level to be competitive. I have no problem with this. It is frustrating knowing my true level 3 team is competing against a team that was even good enough to TRY level 4, but I do understand the reasons behind that decision.

My opinion on question #2 -- If your team isn't good enough to contend in a true worlds division and you have to drop to R5 to be competitive, you shouldn't be at worlds to begin with. Too many at-large bids still being handed out. However, I have heard that next year the number of at-large bids an EP is allowed to give out is dropping. So maybe that'll help with this problem.

Interesting nugget from our coach that has stuck with me. In a random conversation at the beginning of the season in the parent area she said something like (I'm going to get the number wrong because it didn't stick in my head but the concept did)...

that it would be harder to get a bid this year because there were something like "1.4 times as many worlds teams this season and only the same number of bids."

Not sure if that math will actually work out but I thought it was interesting. If more gyms have fielded worlds teams then proportionally less will get the bids even if the same number of teams go s last year. The question is whether the overall quality of teams attending will generally increase or stay the same.

I think the key difference would be in what new teams came on the scene this year. If they're mostly janktastic allstars with 2 fulls and an incomplete double that decided to enter the fray it probably wouldn't improve the "there are too many at-large bids" argument or if they are competitive teams that will pick up those bids and keep the teams that should've been R5 from getting a bid.

I don't' think we'll get a good feel for that until after BidSPORT and NCA though.

My point about sandbagging above (not directed to you McLovin I'm just here so I thought I'd answer it) is if a worlds level team already received a bid...then I think it's sandbagging to go R5. If you're good enough to have some EP send you to worlds, you should stay in the worlds divisions if only to compete against appropriate competition as well unless you're going to decline the bid and not go. Then by all means, go R5.

 

[quitthedrama]

I am of a different opinion than most. I feel there is a definite difference between R5 and level 5 and should be treated as 2 separate divisions (side note: it is actually one of my only pet peeves of NCA in that the crossovers are allowed between R5 and 5). Same goes for level 4 and 4.2. If a team that originally competed as a level 5 team in any division (Jr/Sr/Int'l), particularly if they have an at large bid to Worlds all of the sudden goes R5 for the rest of the season without a significant roster change, I see it as sandbagging.

 

[12stepCheermom]

I am of a different opinion than most. I feel there is a definite difference between R5 and level 5 and should be treated as 2 separate divisions (side note: it is actually one of my only pet peeves of NCA in that the crossovers are allowed between R5 and 5). Same goes for level 4 and 4.2. If a team that originally competed as a level 5 team in any division (Jr/Sr/Int'l), particularly if they have an at large bid to Worlds all of the sudden goes R5 for the rest of the season without a significant roster change, I see it as sandbagging.

You said that so much better than I did. I'm just gonna say "what she said" and refer back to this post :D


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