All-Star Double Edge Sword

[cheermomfootball]

Who that is would be more interesting to know.

Yes, for those who don't know it would be.

 

[socratesofcheer]

Yes, for those who don't know it would be.

Well, I know I'm sitting on the edge of my seat in anticipation. So, without further adieu, who is the big program that started out big?

Drum roll............

 

[cheermomfootball]

Well, I know I'm sitting on the edge of my seat in anticipation. So, without further adieu, who is the big program that started out big?

Drum roll............

You will be sitting there for a long time because I am not going to mention names. They could have started big from day one for many reasons, of which none of us would know. Their website states that they had 10 teams in their first year. In my opinion, that's pretty big.

 

[The Sixth]

You will be sitting there for a long time because I am not going to mention names. They could have started big from day one for many reasons, of which none of us would know. Their website states that they had 10 teams in their first year. In my opinion, that's pretty big.

How many athletes was it then? That is more indicative of its size than teams.

 

[cheermomfootball]

How many athletes was it then? That is more indicative of its size than teams.

200-300 - great point, and I agree that the number of athletes can help drill down even further how large a gym may be. I still think that range is quite large.

 

[createmagic]

You will be sitting there for a long time because I am not going to mention names. They could have started big from day one for many reasons, of which none of us would know. Their website states that they had 10 teams in their first year. In my opinion, that's pretty big.

I think that sometimes "first year" can be a little deceiving... Sometimes a "new" program is actually a merger of several smaller programs. In my area, there used to be 6 all-star gyms within 10 minutes of each other, and we're not talking about a big city here... A few of those merged into a much larger program in a new gym. Technically, it was the first year of that program. Just playing devil's advocate here.

 

[tumbleyoda]

I think that sometimes "first year" can be a little deceiving... Sometimes a "new" program is actually a merger of several smaller programs. In my area, there used to be 6 all-star gyms within 10 minutes of each other, and we're not talking about a big city here... A few of those merged into a much larger program in a new gym. Technically, it was the first year of that program. Just playing devil's advocate here.

Which is why saying a first year gym is not always accurate. First year in business, but several already established cheerleaders and coaches coming from programs that merged together is not the same as rolling out mats in the rec center or in your basement and starting a program with a handful of kids.

 

[Rusty]

So this could quite possible start WW1 on fierce board but I feel as though it is a pretty good discussion. While I am a huge fan/admirer of big gyms. Don't you think in reality we are kinda creating a monster. As we look at the forums and topics of competitions. For the most part we mainly focus on the big names WC, CAE, Twister, Stingrays, you get the point. There are sooooo many small struggling gyms out there that have AMAZING talent. But if the name isn't known/as popular, if they beat a team that is popular, there has to be a "reason". For some talented kids, when they reach a certain level of potential if their team doesn't catch up, we kinda push them towards the big gyms (if they can afford it or make the travel).

For example: I saw a comment once about the new CJA reality show called, Jersey Cheer that someone made saying, something along the lines of why would they pick them. Not WC, twisters,etc. Is that what people think?? That allstar cheerleading is only about those teams or that we should only focus on these teams??

I'll end by saying again, I totally admire and I'm amazed by big gyms and their programs. But we can't forget or appreciate the rest of the gyms that have sometimes trained and nurtured the kids and coaches before they decided to move on and now we only recognize because of the "BIG" name. I personally will always be a fan of the underdog and I will try to remain the forever optimistic, in hope that the judges and fans can see the teams for what they each individually are and not the "just" the name...

Food for thought, competitions with uniforms with no names.... LOL

Big gyms represent someone doing a whole lot of things right at the same time! Marketing, advertising, sales, business partnerships, fitness training, qualified & experienced Coaches, facility maintenance, cleaning, ….

Starting any business in the “Good Ole USA” regardless of the economy, is at best a long shot, so how does business within Cheer Competition Gyms stand up? That answer depends upon the “natural market” surrounding the facility, wealth indicator for the parents and sponsors of the athletes, potential opportunities for “up selling” athletes clothing or other accessories, … Bottom line, any success, large or small, requires some very dedicated individuals willing to make the necessary sacrifices & focused upon success with partners (potential investors) who are willing to risk their “investment capital” ($$$,$$$,$$$.$$) in pursuit of a dream.

Maybe the question is better phrased in multiple sub-questions;

What is the minimum potential athlete concentration (public) necessary?
How many Competitive Cheer squads exist in the surrounding area?
What type of athletes would consider changing to Competitive Cheer?

What sort of capital ($) is necessary to open a large gym?
What is the profit margin for success?
How much Insurance is enough?
What does Insurance cover? What does it not cover?

How many Coaches are necessary to open a large gym?
What are minimal academic & experience Standards for Coaches at each level?
How are Coaches recognized as trained?
Background check?

What is the definition of a large gym? (Could be different definitions & goals)

How do large gyms maintain & grow their athlete participation numbers?

So many great questions drilling down to the answer to “How do some gyms open big & stay open while still growing bigger?

 

[ellen495]

If big means size - not all big gyms are better (meaning competitive talent). Some gyms draw large amounts of kids based on their "friendly family attitude," less practice (more family and school time), less money. This is great for some people. Not every parent and child needs to be on a winning team.

We left a large gym near our home for a somewhat smaller gym (not much smaller -but I think there are probably less kids) but the gym is AMAZING. We're not one of the huge names like CEA or Top Gun. But most people have heard of us and our top team placed in the top 10 at Worlds, our other s5 did extremely well too. For us, it's the best choice and we love it.

 

[SharkDad]

its just like running any other company..you treat your customers well (cheerleaders and parents) they will return and bring more "customers" your way...remember it starts with the "little ones" that's how you build champions..get em when they are young!

IMO this is the most relevant post. After 13 years and now being a college cheer parent by far the biggest factor I have seen as to why a small gym eventually grows large or stays the same size but remains successful is whether they run a good business and make their customers happy. That's a tough balance sometimes.

MISCONCEPTION 1. I know a number of judges and I have never seen or heard of one that ACTUALLY let a gym name affect how they score. Many accusations, but never from anyone who knew that facts.

MISCONCEPTION 2. "Lots" of small gyms don't grow talent just so they can move on to larger gyms. Some kids move on, smartly, because they need to find the higher level training environment, but the biggest factor small gyms stay small is that they aren't running the business well.

NOTE: I know this is not true in all cases but it is what I have seen more often than not. Including in my case. I moved my daughter from a gym with a top team that was Level 3 to a large program, but the biggest factor was some poor business choices I was seeing. When the owner treated my daughter very poorly after we left, I was convinced we had made the right choice.

 

[L5cheermom]

IMO this is the most relevant post. After 13 years and now being a college cheer parent by far the biggest factor I have seen as to why a small gym eventually grows large or stays the same size but remains successful is whether they run a good business and make their customers happy. That's a tough balance sometimes.

MISCONCEPTION 1. I know a number of judges and I have never seen or heard of one that ACTUALLY let a gym name affect how they score. Many accusations, but never from anyone who knew that facts.

MISCONCEPTION 2. "Lots" of small gyms don't grow talent just so they can move on to larger gyms. Some kids move on, smartly, because they need to find the higher level training environment, but the biggest factor small gyms stay small is that they aren't running the business well.

NOTE: I know this is not true in all cases but it is what I have seen more often than not. Including in my case. I moved my daughter from a gym with a top team that was Level 3 to a large program, but the biggest factor was some poor business choices I was seeing. When the owner treated my daughter very poorly after we left, I was convinced we had made the right choice.

I couldn't agree more. My children cheered at an area small gym and were very happy. We addressed a concern with the gym owner regarding our concern of unethical behavior of a coach. Our concerns were dismissed and we were ostracized because of it. We were gone weeks later - as were several other families. My son had outgrown that gym and we are better off wherever are, but if our concerns had been better handled we would probably still be there. It is significant to note that our concerns were later proven to be correct. I am certain the gym owner knew we were correct at the time, but thought it better to let us and several others leave to cover up the problem then to address it.

 

[elisekc9]

i am from a smaller gym and when we bbeat larger more well known gyms it makes me feel better because i know that our program is growing and we are doing something right. This past weekend our small youth 2 team won divisonal champs(every youth 2 team large and small) at return to atlantis and beat many big names. they even got a standing ovation from the judges, not many people know our gym but we try very hard at competition to get our name out there and show people that we are a great program that is growing and trying it's hardest to compete with big name gyms. I totally give the big gyms thier credit and don't have anything against them but when i see a team from and not so known gym win over a big named gym i love it. it just shows that even small gyms have great amount of talent too.

What's the team name of your youth 2's?? Would love to see their routine :)

 

[Underestimated]

Everyone has created sometype of monsters (ie; uni restrictions, choreo restrictions, music restrictions,recruiting, tumbling ETC)
So I'm not surprised by this thread, which is deff saddening.

Coaches, athlete's, gym owners, FANS.. are to blame.. I liive for the smaller gyms always have always will!!!!

 

[ryann3794]

my gym is defiinitly a small gym, we had 3 national teams and a local team last year. We went to cheersport and brought home 2 titles and a 2nd place by .06 and fierceboard was on FIRE about my senior coed 4.

 

[CAmamakat]

As a "BIG GYM" parent, and surprised by the fact that our name hasn't been mentioned here.. Lol! Not every "big mega gym" always have "the best" teams! Do I feel we have a huge pool of kids.. Yes! And have great coaches? "yes" but you can't just criticize "the bigs" bc they are big and always assume we have an advantage. We started at a "medium size gym" years ago which has developed now into a large program. :) Due to our move, My daughters spent 1 season at a small gym before we made the commute to CA-- it was the worst experience of our lives!!! Unprofessional, bad coaching, horrible work ethic and no class at all! And then bad mouthed me & my daughters for going to CA. So in that case, it was sad but I also know some other smaller gyms that are amazing! I am a fan of a good program with good coaches & staff, that create a positive environment ... Whether big or small! Great athletes come from both! Just my 2 cents ;)


Claws Out....