All-Star Double Full... Help!

[Michael White]

I'm looking for advice for my double full, it feels like it just stalls, but I have good days and bad days.

I really need to get this, so any advice would be appreciated.

This is from a "good" day.


This is from a "bad" day.


@tumbleyoda ?

 

[MyGirlCheers]

One thing I notice that may be causing the "stall" is that you're turning your head the opposite direction of your spin.

 

[Quotation]

your tumbling seems almost heavy... if that makes sense. it looks like you're tumbling through water. I've seen quite a few guys tumble like this, especially the more muscly guys. I think this happens because they can get the power they need to do tucks, layouts, and even fulls without a ton of speed, but when it comes to doubles, a skill that needs a huge set and fast twist, just power won't cut it, you need speed too. I think that working on getting a faster roundoff handspring will help to get a higher set in your double, giving you more time to twist. I also noticed that your twist seemed a bit loose, so focus on keeping a hollow body, legs together, and arms close to your body.

also in the "bad day" video, it seems like you aren't twisting in a straight line, most likely because you're twisting right off the ground and not giving yourself time to rotate.

DISCLAIMER: All of this could be completely wrong. I don't have any level 5/6 tumbling, nor have I coached it, so I can only speak from seeing lots of tumbling, not actually doing it.

 

[cheer25mom]

I agree with the above. Your handsprings don't build power because you aren't pushing through your hips and snapping aggressively enough. Some of the struggle with this may be shoulder and back flexibility.


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[tumbleyoda]

Above comments are correct. Lots of little things which don't matter as much in tucks or layouts, but matter immensely in the higher level skills. The way i coach and fix tumbling is to look at the whole process, not the one skill. Many times if we fix the lead up skills, the ending skill tends to either take care of itself, or is very easy to fix.

First fix I would work on is straightening out your RO and snapping your chest up every time. Your head is out of line which causes you to reach slightly crooked and put our hips out of line, thereby changing your angles and reducing the power intended to be created by the RO. Therefore you make up for it by tumbling heavy to gain the power that should be generated in the RO and ROBHS. If you have a pit, work on RO to your back, concentrating on blocking theough your chest and shoulders and snapping chest up every time. Feet in RO should snap under you not behind you. In the video, the knee bend I see is a result of wrong placement of not snapping thru core to bring feet thru to punch backwards into BHS. This also reduces the power that technique should bring and is compensated by tumbling heavy.

Apply the same strategies in the Standing BHS, and then the ROBHS. Stay punching thru ball of feet and not flat footed. Fixing this will easily give you another foot plus of height in your set. Then we can fix the double full more confidently making changes because we know we are high enough in the air every time.

Hollow your set more in the layout. Always remember that this is a Layout double full not just a double full. Meaning we must execute a proper layout while executing the double full. Think spin at the top of your set and not off the bottom. Pull your core tighter and squeeze toes, ankles, legs, and glutes awhile you spin. This will make you spin tighter. The key is to tumble tighter, not faster. Faster usually ends in fulls and doubles being ripped off the ground which IMO is improper and more dangerous than a set, hollow, spin, stretch, and land.

Hope this gives you some ideas to work on!

 

[Michael White]

I agree with the above. Your handsprings don't build power because you aren't pushing through your hips and snapping aggressively enough. Some of the struggle with this may be shoulder and back flexibility.


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I do build power with my tumbling. Only my double full is like this. Could it be because I'm worrying too much about my set?

 

[Michael White]

Above comments are correct. Lots of little things which don't matter as much in tucks or layouts, but matter immensely in the higher level skills. The way i coach and fix tumbling is to look at the whole process, not the one skill. Many times if we fix the lead up skills, the ending skill tends to either take care of itself, or is very easy to fix.

First fix I would work on is straightening out your RO and snapping your chest up every time. Your head is out of line which causes you to reach slightly crooked and put our hips out of line, thereby changing your angles and reducing the power intended to be created by the RO. Therefore you make up for it by tumbling heavy to gain the power that should be generated in the RO and ROBHS. If you have a pit, work on RO to your back, concentrating on blocking theough your chest and shoulders and snapping chest up every time. Feet in RO should snap under you not behind you. In the video, the knee bend I see is a result of wrong placement of not snapping thru core to bring feet thru to punch backwards into BHS. This also reduces the power that technique should bring and is compensated by tumbling heavy.

Apply the same strategies in the Standing BHS, and then the ROBHS. Stay punching thru ball of feet and not flat footed. Fixing this will easily give you another foot plus of height in your set. Then we can fix the double full more confidently making changes because we know we are high enough in the air every time.

Hollow your set more in the layout. Always remember that this is a Layout double full not just a double full. Meaning we must execute a proper layout while executing the double full. Think spin at the top of your set and not off the bottom. Pull your core tighter and squeeze toes, ankles, legs, and glutes awhile you spin. This will make you spin tighter. The key is to tumble tighter, not faster. Faster usually ends in fulls and doubles being ripped off the ground which IMO is improper and more dangerous than a set, hollow, spin, stretch, and land.

Hope this gives you some ideas to work on!

My tumbling only looks like this when I'm trying the double full. Could I be overcompensating? Normally my tumbling is much faster.

 

[Michael White]

Above comments are correct. Lots of little things which don't matter as much in tucks or layouts, but matter immensely in the higher level skills. The way i coach and fix tumbling is to look at the whole process, not the one skill. Many times if we fix the lead up skills, the ending skill tends to either take care of itself, or is very easy to fix.

First fix I would work on is straightening out your RO and snapping your chest up every time. Your head is out of line which causes you to reach slightly crooked and put our hips out of line, thereby changing your angles and reducing the power intended to be created by the RO. Therefore you make up for it by tumbling heavy to gain the power that should be generated in the RO and ROBHS. If you have a pit, work on RO to your back, concentrating on blocking theough your chest and shoulders and snapping chest up every time. Feet in RO should snap under you not behind you. In the video, the knee bend I see is a result of wrong placement of not snapping thru core to bring feet thru to punch backwards into BHS. This also reduces the power that technique should bring and is compensated by tumbling heavy.

Apply the same strategies in the Standing BHS, and then the ROBHS. Stay punching thru ball of feet and not flat footed. Fixing this will easily give you another foot plus of height in your set. Then we can fix the double full more confidently making changes because we know we are high enough in the air every time.

Hollow your set more in the layout. Always remember that this is a Layout double full not just a double full. Meaning we must execute a proper layout while executing the double full. Think spin at the top of your set and not off the bottom. Pull your core tighter and squeeze toes, ankles, legs, and glutes awhile you spin. This will make you spin tighter. The key is to tumble tighter, not faster. Faster usually ends in fulls and doubles being ripped off the ground which IMO is improper and more dangerous than a set, hollow, spin, stretch, and land.

Hope this gives you some ideas to work on!

This was long long ago, but the first day I started adding my whip layout. Regrettably I don't have very many videos of my tumbling, I usually only record things I'm working on. Does my tumbling still seem slow?

 

[tumbleyoda]

It is a bit slow, even for your size. Tumbling should increase in speed and culminate with the big skill finish at the end. IMO it is not bad at all, just some tweaks.

Here is a double full. Not perfect, but I hope you can see the technique things I was pointing out. I will see if I can record one of the guys tumbling this week to give you a better comparison doing the exact same skills.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

It is a bit slow, even for your size. Tumbling should increase in speed and culminate with the big skill finish at the end. IMO it is not bad at all, just some tweaks.

Here is a double full. Not perfect, but I hope you can see the technique things I was pointing out. I will see if I can record one of the guys tumbling this week to give you a better comparison doing the exact same skills.

Good heavens that is so high/hollow/beautiful that I almost shed a tear! Yas.

 

[tumbleyoda]

@oncecoolcoachnowmom thanks. IIRC she was ten in this video. They are sky high now and thankfully had no bad landings. And it was all taught with no spot and no pit. #patience #drillsgetskills

 

[Michael White]

It is a bit slow, even for your size. Tumbling should increase in speed and culminate with the big skill finish at the end. IMO it is not bad at all, just some tweaks.

Here is a double full. Not perfect, but I hope you can see the technique things I was pointing out. I will see if I can record one of the guys tumbling this week to give you a better comparison doing the exact same skills.

Holy ... I wish I had a pit, or even resi mats. I've pretty much been tumbling on the floor by myself and critiquing my own videos I have people take of me, so I'll try your tips. I know it's the fear of the landing and I pull too early, but my layout sets are high and hollow, so I just have to combine them together.

 

[cheer25mom]

Holy ... I wish I had a pit, or even resi mats. I've pretty much been tumbling on the floor by myself and critiquing my own videos I have people take of me, so I'll try your tips. I know it's the fear of the landing and I pull too early, but my layout sets are high and hollow, so I just have to combine them together.

I really wish you would consider what is being said about your RO and BHS technique as well. I know it's not what you want to hear, but I have learned over the years that it's true: technique issues, even small ones, in the RO and BHS lead to issues in the skills they connect to. No one wants to go back and rework that technique, but everyone who is willing to listen, stick it out, and correct the mistakes is a better tumbler for it.


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[tumbleyoda]

Holy ... I wish I had a pit, or even resi mats. I've pretty much been tumbling on the floor by myself and critiquing my own videos I have people take of me, so I'll try your tips. I know it's the fear of the landing and I pull too early, but my layout sets are high and hollow, so I just have to combine them together.

I understand. Your tumbling is good! Don't miss us saying that. Just some minor corrections that is all. I never had any equipment until I started taking gymnastics at 14. By that time I had already learned BHS, Tucks and Arabians on my own. I know the frustration of not having equipment and the wonder and joy of finally having something soft and safe to land on instead of concrete or grass...lol.

If you have a large wedge, you can put a landing mat on that and do the same drill going up the wedge. That is my preferred drill over doing it in the pit, but it is a spot station for me to keep kids from unintentionally throwing their heads back and jamming their neck into the mats.

Patience is the key to fixing it. Here is a self test. Stand straight and hold your hands above your head. Have someone mark where your reach ends. Now step away and look at it. That is where your head should ideally be when you are inverted in a salto regardless if it is tuck, pike, layout, full, double full. The absolute lowest I would allow an athlete to spin would be at head height, if it was consistent. If I have an athlete that is lower than their head height on a layout, they will not spin with my permission. (Watch some videos even of worlds and see how many spins are lower than head height and watch the landings) Typically those athletes that try to get around that clause with me and our gym and go to other gyms are the ones that end up with jacked up ankles or knees because they didn't want to fix what needed to be fixed so that they could be safe.

 

[Michael White]

I really wish you would consider what is being said about your RO and BHS technique as well. I know it's not what you want to hear, but I have learned over the years that it's true: technique issues, even small ones, in the RO and BHS lead to issues in the skills they connect to. No one wants to go back and rework that technique, but everyone who is willing to listen, stick it out, and correct the mistakes is a better tumbler for it.


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I'll listen to your word on the RO and RO BHS, but my rebound is easily three feet or more off the ground. I have the highest rebound in the gym. If I'm doing it incorrectly, than that's great, I'll only get better.