All-Star High School Coach Has Problems With Allstar

[xpressjag]

So what do larger programs such as rays, cea, gym Tyme, ca, spirit and bullets do? I'm sure they have high school girls in their program

 

[ONE44cheer]

Do none of your high schools compete? My coach wouldn't dare give up the allstar girls because we were the only good tumblers. She knew I would pick all star over high school any day so she was very lenient on missing practices and letting me switch games with people.

Where all your good tumblers come from? If your a proper coach and know what your doing, you train you HS athletes to tumble just as good as you AS athletes. I coach both AS and HS and have had more AS girls complain about tumbling on hard floor. But I also live in a state where you cannot do both AS and HS for the last 3 years. And AS girls have asked me to overlook the rule because they wanna cheer at games but if our governing board found out our school gets a penalty.

 

[coachlex1019]

It just stinks that HS is ganging up on AS in our area and the best HS teams have the best AS kids on them. I just will never understand how they don't see working together is what is best for the kids.

THIS TIMES A BILLION!!

 

[GreatWhite92]

Where all your good tumblers come from? If your a proper coach and know what your doing, you train you HS athletes to tumble just as good as you AS athletes. I coach both AS and HS and have had more AS girls complain about tumbling on hard floor. But I also live in a state where you cannot do both AS and HS for the last 3 years. And AS girls have asked me to overlook the rule because they wanna cheer at games but if our governing board found out our school gets a penalty.

Well we were allowed to do both but we had a split team of tumbling ability. Most of the good tumblers were all stars but the not so good tumblers were awesome stunters and mostly didnt do all stars so our coach had to make a decision on whether she wanted to have a team of really good stunters and no tumblers or good stunters and good tumblers for competitions. Sure some of the not so good tumblers would gain a few skills but not very often is it easy to teach someone who doesnt already have the understanding of how to full how to do a full on a hardfloor in your cafeteria. We didn't exactly have the best resources to teach tumbling.

 

[John Butler]

Not so much on topic, but when are these high schools going to start demanding the safety of their athletes by providing spring floors. At least give them 1 stretch of paneling to tumble on for practice and make sure competitions provide spring floors. I know it's not absolute, but you can't tell me spring floors don't relieve some of the pressure being put on ankles and knees. I've never understood the change made several years ago when they moved high school competitive cheer to a dead floor. That was the year my oldest Ashley stopped doing high school competitive cheer. I can't imagine how many will have wrist and ankle problems later in life from tumbling on hard floors. Recent rule changes made by the governing bodies for tumbling were put in place to make it safer for the athletes. How then does making kids compete on a dead floor do the same?

Note to all floor mat producers out there... the first one of you to develop a roll up spring floor (flexible top with springs self contained inside) will make millions. This way high schools all of the country could make competitive high school cheer safer for their athletes. One could roll out the floors for practice in the basketball gym and roll them back up afterwards.

 

[CaliCoach]

I have girls on the high school teams I coach who also compete on allstar teams at a couple local gyms. I am very supportive of the girls doing both programs as I think each offers unique experiences the other does not. I also have my high school teams practice two days a week (outside our additional 3 practices at the school) at an allstar gym with 4 of the program's coaches to help me raise the bar on their tumbling and take advantage of the rod floor, spring floors. trampoline, foam pit, different coaches'' perspectives and expertise, etc. it's a beautiful marriage of school and allstar cheer...most of the time. We, of course, run into some bumps in the road occasionally like this week....one of my girls is competing with Varsity in the morning in SoCal this Saturday and then jumping on a plane to head to Vegas and compete at American Grand in the afternoon. This will make my Saturday morning a lot more hectic, but its worth it to see the girls on my teams participate with both programs.

 

[CaliCoach]

Also, I should add that I have separate "game teams" and "comp teams" at the high school I coach at. This helps out the allstar kids a lot because if they choose to only participate on the comp teams, then they don't have the additional time requirements of cheering at games. I have a good amount of girls who choose comp teams only and I also have girls that are game teams only (usually because of skill level/tumbling). Example: I have seniors on Varsity game team only because they did not have the skills needed to be on the comp team, however they are still Varsity cheerleaders. Everyone seems to be hapoy This way everyone can participate at their level and in a capacity that allows them to be most successful.

 

[Tosh]

Where all your good tumblers come from? If your a proper coach and know what your doing, you train you HS athletes to tumble just as good as you AS athletes. I coach both AS and HS and have had more AS girls complain about tumbling on hard floor. But I also live in a state where you cannot do both AS and HS for the last 3 years. And AS girls have asked me to overlook the rule because they wanna cheer at games but if our governing board found out our school gets a penalty.

I could not agree with you more....we have a very competitive program (2 x national champs) and the all of our girls are from our rec and MS program....they start going to the gym for tumbling at the earliest levels starting in 1st grade. At this age the push is slower than AS but by the time they are in 4/5th grade and getting ready for MS they have their standing tucks, layouts and some with fulls......While there is no fastened rule no one does both....I think three years ago we had a freshman that came from an AS team and wanted to do their 1/2 season which is just picking up when we are finishing-up....it was crazy and no one has tried it since...

 

[Tosh]

Not so much on topic, but when are these high schools going to start demanding the safety of their athletes by providing spring floors. At least give them 1 stretch of paneling to tumble on for practice and make sure competitions provide spring floors. I know it's not absolute, but you can't tell me spring floors don't relieve some of the pressure being put on ankles and knees. I've never understood the change made several years ago when they moved high school competitive cheer to a dead floor. That was the year my oldest Ashley stopped doing high school competitive cheer. I can't imagine how many will have wrist and ankle problems later in life from tumbling on hard floors. Recent rule changes made by the governing bodies for tumbling were put in place to make it safer for the athletes. How then does making kids compete on a dead floor do the same?

Note to all floor mat producers out there... the first one of you to develop a roll up spring floor (flexible top with springs self contained inside) will make millions. This way high schools all of the country could make competitive high school cheer safer for their athletes. One could roll out the floors for practice in the basketball gym and roll them back up afterwards.

This I just do not get.....kids that train on a spring floor find it harder on a dead mat and kids that train on dead mat find it harder on the spring floor.
I do not think the "spring" in the floor makes a difference from a safety point of view....it is just basically two different styles and it comes down to what you were trained on.....infact a spring floor can be fatal to someone who trained on a dead mat.

 

[John Butler]

I do not think the "spring" in the floor makes a difference from a safety point of view....it is just basically two different styles and it comes down to what you were trained on.....

I disagree. When landing any tumbling pass, springs under your landing surface give extra give to the floor, which I believe decreases the impact on the joints and muscles. Simple physics shows this to be true.

infact a spring floor can be fatal to someone who trained on a dead mat.

Agreed this can be dangerous. Perhaps that is the only argument in support of a dead floor, in that high school tumblers who might be less trained can't bound as high in their tumbling. I still believe the less impact on landings the better. I just believe a dead floor is so much worse on the ankles, knees and lower back.

 

[ohsnapitslex]

I have had a bad experience cheering with high school and all star my freshman year. There were 2 other girls on my high school team and we all cheered at different gyms. The problem started occurring when our practice times changed due to basketball season and lack of available gyms in our school. The coach would let one team mate who cheered for another ABC all stars leave and me and my other team mate would always get yelled at for trying to leave to go to our all star practice. Either way all three of us ended up leaving the team because she started WAY too much drama, and she did not lead a safe environment for cheerleading. Our athletic department thought so too, after all the complaints they received about her she was gone the next season too!

 

[AndyT_T]

Not so much on topic, but when are these high schools going to start demanding the safety of their athletes by providing spring floors. At least give them 1 stretch of paneling to tumble on for practice and make sure competitions provide spring floors. I know it's not absolute, but you can't tell me spring floors don't relieve some of the pressure being put on ankles and knees. I've never understood the change made several years ago when they moved high school competitive cheer to a dead floor. That was the year my oldest Ashley stopped doing high school competitive cheer. I can't imagine how many will have wrist and ankle problems later in life from tumbling on hard floors. Recent rule changes made by the governing bodies for tumbling were put in place to make it safer for the athletes. How then does making kids compete on a dead floor do the same?

Note to all floor mat producers out there... the first one of you to develop a roll up spring floor (flexible top with springs self contained inside) will make millions. This way high schools all of the country could make competitive high school cheer safer for their athletes. One could roll out the floors for practice in the basketball gym and roll them back up afterwards.

I think NCA should make nationals a spring competition. Then college team would start practicing at allstar gyms in the area more in preparation for nationals. As colleges became more accustomed to spring floors the colleges and local gyms would get a stronger bond and eventually NCA could require spring for college cheer.
Once college cheer is a spring floor sport it would be easier to start pressuring highschools to make the switch.

Side note: I know people think it is unrealistic to have every college team practice at a private gym, but lots of sports do that.
I know a boxer, a hockey player, a swimmer, and a gymnast at my school and all of them said that their sport practices in a private gym off campus. If other sports do it it is not impossible for cheer to do the same.

Edit: NCA and UCA both would need to make nationals a spring comp for this to really work.

 

[AndyT_T]

This I just do not get.....kids that train on a spring floor find it harder on a dead mat and kids that train on dead mat find it harder on the spring floor.
I do not think the "spring" in the floor makes a difference from a safety point of view....it is just basically two different styles and it comes down to what you were trained on.....infact a spring floor can be fatal to someone who trained on a dead mat.

Completely disagree. A gymnast wouldn't tumble on a dead mat if you payed them a million dollars.
Dead mat is NOT good for joints. Just because people CAN do it doesn't mean it's safe.
Source: my dad is a pediatric orthopedist and he ABSOLUTELY FREAKED when he found out I was tumbling on dead floor. He made me promise not to do certain moves lol

 

[Deleted member 11300]

Update to this post. Don't have to worry about our Allstar kids getting kicked off HS team during Basketball b/c of allstar comps. The coach was fired! She was horrible. Saying things to the girls insinuating they were fat, or had bad skills, or had thunder thighs and then lying about it when adults questioned her. She blamed everything on the girls. The Athletic Director kept siding with her. Finally the girls got smart and used their phones to record her tantrums. Between that and a few moms going over the AD's head to the county office, the witch is gone! New coach told is she would work with us as far as missing games and no one will be kicked off! Yeah!!!!!! Thanks for all the responses.

 

[Tosh]

I disagree. When landing any tumbling pass, springs under your landing surface give extra give to the floor, which I believe decreases the impact on the joints and muscles. Simple physics shows this to be true.


Agreed this can be dangerous. Perhaps that is the only argument in support of a dead floor, in that high school tumblers who might be less trained can't bound as high in their tumbling. I still believe the less impact on landings the better. I just believe a dead floor is so much worse on the ankles, knees and lower back.

I do not appreciate the "less trained" language. Would it be fair if I said that an AS cheerleader cannot or find it very difficult to tumble on a dead floor is "less trained"? In fact you will find that kids that switch from dead floor to spring floor adjust much much faster than kids going from spring floor to a dead floor. the reason for this is because they have to jump higher and push harder on a dead floor because there is no help as with a spring floor. Their adjustment only includes not using as much power as they did on the dead floor and learning how to ride the bounce.....whereas with AS kids making the switch, they have to use alot more power than the ever had to and it takes time....