How Low Can You Go To Win Gold At Worlds ?

Discussion in 'Allstar Cheerleading' started by MrBob, Apr 8, 2019.

  1. XtremeWpg

    XtremeWpg Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    I hope my bold answers above aren't combative, because they're not meant to be at all. I've been on this board for a lot of years and more often than not, people assume that teams change divisions as some ploy to win, when in reality, who knows.
     
  2. UCFKnights07

    UCFKnights07 Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    I dont agree that the sport is largely based on good sportsmanship or loyalty to a division. Parents/athletes are paying so much money to do the sport. And when given the chance within the rules I cant see why a team wouldnt try to better their chances of winning whether thats dropping a level or changing to an easier or less crowded division.. While i dont agree with it, to dumb down a team for a possibly easier win, but it is what it is.
     
  3. crazzyeyesassypants

    crazzyeyesassypants Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    I actually think Viqueens has a better chance to globe in AG6 rather than level 5. People have long complained about top 3 from each country moving to finals, but those have been the rules for quite a few years now. There is some pretty talented level 6 large coed teams from USA that don’t make it to finals every year and some sketchy teams that do, the USA teams are outscoring these teams by at least 10 points. I’m always amazed how these athletes dust themselves off and come back year after year hungry to make top 3. Part of me gets the rule, I get that if you want to claim to be a World Champion you have to beat other countries but sometimes it doesn’t feel fair. I don’t think there should be any rules against changing divisions, I’m sure Viqueens have a reason for changing divisions.
     
  4. Eyes On The Prize

    Eyes On The Prize Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    I understand where you're coming from. I think cheer, like you said, is a whole different ball game and it makes it difficult to compare it to those sports. The sports you have backgrounds in, though they are team sports, don't use a "team" like cheer does. Every person has a role in a routine and it's exceptionally hard to switch people in and out when something happens, especially at the higher levels. Cheer doesn't have a bench like baseball and hockey. Cheer teams are not as flexible as most other team sports. Need a replacement? Are you a small gym? High caliber team? Short notice? You're gonna have some difficulty finding an adequate replacement.


    I think someone stated previously that 2 of Viqueens flyers were not old enough for the L6 division (17 & up) but were old enough to compete in L5 (14 & up). If that was the reason for the change, is it fair to remove them from the team so they stay in L6? If they've been on that team all season and put the work in, is it ok to kick two athletes off to spare the feelings of the other teams? European cheer, from what I understand, operates on different age grids and different schedules for seasons than the US and Canada does. They have to adapt to our rules when they come to Worlds. In adapting to our rules to compete with us, shouldn't they be allowed to change divisions to what fits best for their teams? L5 was the only level they could've competed in with their current team.

    As for the other teams who now have another team to compete against, you're not the best until you compete against the best. I disagree that L5 is a step down from L6. L6 is not a progression from L5; mastery of L6 does not equate to mastery of L5. All these teams can perform the same set of skills. All teams have an equal chance to win. Just because Viqueens competed L6 doesn't mean they will win. They had a lot of trouble hitting some of their lower level stunts on that video. And they will need to learn all new stunts. They're going into Worlds with a new routine while other teams have had all season to polish theirs. They have a lot of work ahead of them to even hit their routine, let alone make it to day 2.
     
  5. JerseyGirl112

    JerseyGirl112 I named my pet Sir Fierce-a-lot

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    I hear everyone’s points about things happening last minute and there being many possible reasons for a change of division. However, what I haven’t seen is a good explanation for why they chose NT?? If the move was because of age restrictions why the need to go to a non tumbling level? That, IMO, is what looks shady about this


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  6. Cheeranswers

    Cheeranswers Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    I don’t buy the age thing. They’ve been competing AG6 for YEARS. Did they all of a sudden forget the age requirements? Highly doubt it.
     
  7. tuckxandxtwist

    tuckxandxtwist Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    Quoting myself because no one has actually answered, and this could be totally legit reasoning--aren't international teams on a different schedule, meaning they got their bid for worlds 2019 before NT was a division? Can they still get a NT bid for 2019 or if they get it is it for 2020 already?

    or have they changed the international schedule oddities and I just don't know it.
     
  8. caffeineandglitter

    caffeineandglitter Cheer Stalker

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    Hey! I saw your post and wanted to share some information you might be interested in. Most of Viqueens Spirit's competitions are governed by different rules--they compete in the European Cheer Union, which has different age requirements. A big and important competition for them is the European Championships. Their flyers are old enough to compete on Level 6 at the European Championships, but NOT old enough to compete on Level 6 at IASF Worlds. If you go to their instagram @Viqueens_Spirit and look at their saved stories under the category 2018/2019 you can see archived stories that explain this. So it does make sense to me that they picked flyers who could compete at *nearly* all of their events, including the European Championships, which seems to me like a big deal competition for a European team.

    They've known their youngest flyer was 15 years old for 32 weeks (if you go to their instagram and check stories archived under the Q&A 2018/19 category they posted this information 32 weeks ago) so it doesn't seem like a very sudden change to me. I do not think they have competed at an IASF Level 6 event in the 2018 - 2019 season. They have competed Level 6 in a European Cheer Union event during this season, but they're currently not allowed to compete IASF Level 6.

    I'm just a fan (friend's daughter is an adorable mini cheerleader in the Northeast USA!) but I think all this shows how having many sets of rules and different cheer governing bodies is very confusing. I really hope there's more international standardization of rules (and that cheer becomes an Olympic sport!)
     
  9. Eyes On The Prize

    Eyes On The Prize Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    ETA: @caffeineandglitter beat me to it while i was typing this out.

    Except the main governing body that they compete under for most comps is the European Cheer Union, whose divisions and age grids are different than IASF's. Here is their 2019 rulebook. Pages 6 and 8 are the pages of interest for division and age grids.
    • Highest IASF age group is Open (17 & Older) / Highest ECU age group is Senior (15 & Older for L6)
    • IASF Level 6 is only open to Open teams/ ECU Level 6 is open to Senior teams
    Therefore, 15 year olds can compete L6 in ECU but not IASF. Worlds is IASF governed, not ECU governed. This year, they have two athletes who aren't old enough to compete in IASF Open. In previous years, apparently all their athletes were 17+. I highly doubt Viqueens, or any European teams really, make their teams according to IASF age grids when they only compete at an IASF governed event once in the whole year.

    This whole thing is not a Viqueens-want-an-easy-win situation. It's a Viqueens-don't-fit-into-the-IASF-age-grid-as-easily-as-they-were-able-to-in-previous-years-because-cheer-doesn't-have-one-international-governing-body situation.


    ECU doesn't offer NT levels. This is the first year NT is offered in IASF. They fit better in NT than tumbling divisions. I don't see the need to offer any better reason than "because that's where they're the most competitive" when almost every single team enters the division where they will be the most competitive and teams are formed to be the most competitive.

    ETA: I think the NT division will see more International teams enter as years go on. European teams not having the tumbling that's needed to be competitive against US teams has always been a complaint. You could argue it's one of the reasons why the 3 per country rule was implemented. Now there's a division where European teams can compete on a more level playing ground with US teams. Is this a good bridge between International teams and US teams? I guess we will see.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  10. Cheeranswers

    Cheeranswers Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    I just don’t get why it’s all of a sudden a problem this year only. Unless that was their plan all year to compete non tumbling, but their Instagram doesn’t make it appear that way. It just doesn’t make sense to me.

    I don’t think it’s an “easy win” situation. Just a disappointed fan wanting to see all girl rewind full ups :(
     
  11. TealShades

    TealShades I have my own cheer message board

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    Anyone else sing How low every time you see this thread lol
     
  12. schpo

    schpo Last Pass... on International Open 1

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    I would LOVE to see NT at level 6, just for the entertainment value. Here in Canada we have some amazing level 6 teams - their stunts are literally jaw-dropping.
     
  13. AndyT_T

    AndyT_T Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    Next season!
     
  14. AndyT_T

    AndyT_T Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    I was so excited to see it at worlds! I wanted them to win AG6 so bad!
     
  15. kayemm

    kayemm I text ACEDAD all the time

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    In the UK our bids always work a year ahead, so competitions in the 2018-2019 season give out bids to the 2020 Worlds/Summit. Otherwise it isn't enough time to save/plan for a trip to Worlds. Our season also runs until mid-summer rather than Worlds/Summit being the final competitions.