All-Star Illegal Athlete

[coachbd]

Everyone needs to understand that threatening a lawsuit is useless unless you actually have grounds for one (or it's obscure enough where you could swing a good threat). They'd have about as much chance for a lawsuit as I do to grow fairy wings.

I blame ridiculous American judges for this stupid, sue-happy/breathing-can-be-a-lawsuit World we live in.

Haha yup, I'm a lawyer and I can tell you they have no case.
Idiots.

 

[Jule]

Ugh.
I hate that this casts such a weird light on cheerleading in Germany. Especially since we've come so far and the gym in question is undoubtedly on of the best gyms in the country. They really don't need any shady behaviour.

 

[ztaprincess]

Ugh.
I hate that this casts such a weird light on cheerleading in Germany. Especially since we've come so far and the gym in question is undoubtedly on of the best gyms in the country. They really don't need any shady behaviour.

Well I can tell you right now it in no way makes me look down on cheer in Germany except for one gym. Plus had they not started doing what they are doing (threatening and harrassing) i wouldn't even have looked down on them at all, they were just doing what the USASF was allowing them to do.

 

[CheerBank]

Just wanted to give an update - I posted this in the other Illegal Athlete thread as well.
Heard today that the team that I knew went to Worlds this year with an athlete who turned 12 one month before Worlds was in fact disqualified the moment that athlete set foot on the mat, so it seems that the USASF does follow through with investigating claims of illegal athletes with the appropriate supporting proof. Apparently the USASF warned them before they got to Worlds and again prior to competing and they chose to compete anyway.
Wondering if the parents of any of the athletes on the team even know that they were actually disqualified, since they were not dead last in prelims (which makes no sense to me).
The team is also supposedly ineligible to compete again in their division next year should they get another bid to Worlds. Of course, that team could just change it's division next year and be back on that mat once again. Love that USASF loophole.

 

[worldsring09]

Haha yup, I'm a lawyer and I can tell you they have no case.
Idiots.

Graduated from law school...decided I did not like the system and do not practice. (amongst other reasons, see below)

Unfortunately, in the United States anyone can file a lawsuit and make any sort of allegations one would like...am I saying they will win? No. Am I saying they may not suffer repercussions/sanctions if they are lying? No. However, can you in fact, file a lawsuit and cause the other party financial damage trying to protect themselves? Yes. Does money to file a lawsuit and/or protect themselves in a lawsuit amount to an unfair leverage within our system? I think, yes. (MY OPINION)

On the other hand, let's take it back a bit (here is an example I have dealt with)....parents who paid a variety of different fees and traveled to competitions with a gym on a team they found out was cheating....

Again, I do not practice and am out of the loop, but I was def thinking fraud. A couple of phone calls to some old friends, and a few in person consults with practicing attorneys (one PAID consult in DC), confirmed my thoughts...sue for fraud. Force them to produce real documents proving age, or get a judgment entered for fraud.

Problem is, you can sue someone, but even if you "win", it also may amount to NOTHING (at least in a financial sense). 1) The other party might not show, avoiding producing any real documents, and simply allow the judgment. 2) If the losing party has a bunch of others suing them, you simply get in line. 3) If the losing party "has no money" (they can find ways to hide it, you all know) and if they "have no assets" (and same as before)...they can still avoid payment...bankruptcy, etc.

And they can still claim boo hoo the system (and everyone else) was biased against them, "all these awful things these haters are saying just is not true"...

It all just depends on what you are seeking...for me, I am fortunate enough that it doesn't matter if they do not show up, and I do not want their money or any of their "assets".

I want them to know that I am calling them out and standing strong.

No one is perfect. However, if you lie and continue to lie, damaging other people financially and emotionally (parent clients, athletes, competitors, EP's, other gym owners, the business community supporting you, etc)...eventually, someone(s) will stand up and you will be proven for what you are...a shady, cheating liar.

 

[cupieqt]

Just wanted to give an update - I posted this in the other Illegal Athlete thread as well.
Heard today that the team that I knew went to Worlds this year with an athlete who turned 12 one month before Worlds was in fact disqualified the moment that athlete set foot on the mat, so it seems that the USASF does follow through with investigating claims of illegal athletes with the appropriate supporting proof. Apparently the USASF warned them before they got to Worlds and again prior to competing and they chose to compete anyway.
Wondering if the parents of any of the athletes on the team even know that they were actually disqualified, since they were not dead last in prelims (which makes no sense to me).
The team is also supposedly ineligible to compete again in their division next year should they get another bid to Worlds. Of course, that team could just change it's division next year and be back on that mat once again. Love that USASF loophole.

This is utterly ridiculous.

Or udderly ridiculous :cow: if you prefer.

 

[coachbd]

Graduated from law school...decided I did not like the system and do not practice. (amongst other reasons, see below)

Unfortunately, in the United States anyone can file a lawsuit and make any sort of allegations one would like...am I saying they will win? No. Am I saying they may not suffer repercussions/sanctions if they are lying? No. However, can you in fact, file a lawsuit and cause the other party financial damage trying to protect themselves? Yes. Does money to file a lawsuit and/or protect themselves in a lawsuit amount to an unfair leverage within our system? I think, yes. (MY OPINION)

On the other hand, let's take it back a bit (here is an example I have dealt with)....parents who paid a variety of different fees and traveled to competitions with a gym on a team they found out was cheating....

Again, I do not practice and am out of the loop, but I was def thinking fraud. A couple of phone calls to some old friends, and a few in person consults with practicing attorneys (one PAID consult in DC), confirmed my thoughts...sue for fraud. Force them to produce real documents proving age, or get a judgment entered for fraud.

Problem is, you can sue someone, but even if you "win", it also may amount to NOTHING (at least in a financial sense). 1) The other party might not show, avoiding producing any real documents, and simply allow the judgment. 2) If the losing party has a bunch of others suing them, you simply get in line. 3) If the losing party "has no money" (they can find ways to hide it, you all know) and if they "have no assets" (and same as before)...they can still avoid payment...bankruptcy, etc.

And they can still claim boo hoo the system (and everyone else) was biased against them, "all these awful things these haters are saying just is not true"...

It all just depends on what you are seeking...for me, I am fortunate enough that it doesn't matter if they do not show up, and I do not want their money or any of their "assets".

I want them to know that I am calling them out and standing strong.

No one is perfect. However, if you lie and continue to lie, damaging other people financially and emotionally (parent clients, athletes, competitors, EP's, other gym owners, the business community supporting you, etc)...eventually, someone(s) will stand up and you will be proven for what you are...a shady, cheating liar.

I wasn't talking about the parents suing the gym who used the illegal athlete (your fraud argument). I was referring to ztaprincess saying that people from the gym in question were threatening to sue her for contacting the USASF about said illegal athlete. They have no case in that regard.

 

[worldsring09]

I wasn't talking about the parents suing the gym who used the illegal athlete (your fraud argument). I was referring to ztaprincess saying that people from the gym in question were threatening to sue her for contacting the USASF about said illegal athlete. They have no case in that regard.

I understand what you are saying...my point is that unfortunately (or fortunately) people/businesses can TRY to sue anyone. Or threaten to sue anyone. Whether you are considering suing someone for cheating, or someone is threatening to sue you for outing them for cheating, the truth is the truth and people seeking the truth and/or demanding that others follow the rules...we should all stand tall.

No cow-tipping, power to the non-cheating cows! :)

 

[kristenthegreat]

I understand what you are saying...my point is that unfortunately (or fortunately) people/businesses can TRY to sue anyone. Or threaten to sue anyone. Whether you are considering suing someone for cheating, or someone is threatening to sue you for outing them for cheating, the truth is the truth and people seeking the truth and/or demanding that others follow the rules...we should all stand tall.

No cow-tipping, power to the non-cheating cows! :)

Why do people feel the need to sue everyone over everything nowadays? I wish they added a check to the system to stop stupid, unnecessary lawsuits or CLEARLY money-grabbing ones.

 

[coachbd]

Why do people feel the need to sue everyone over everything nowadays? I wish they added a check to the system to stop stupid, unnecessary lawsuits or CLEARLY money-grabbing ones.

They do that over here in Aus. You just file a motion to get the suit dismissed and it'll be thrown out in a simple directions hearing (takes a few minutes) if it obviously has no merit. And you get in trouble as a legal practitioner for accepting someone's case and filing such a lawsuit if this is determined - it's against our ethical professional obligations as lawyers.

 

[ztaprincess]

Why do people feel the need to sue everyone over everything nowadays? I wish they added a check to the system to stop stupid, unnecessary lawsuits or CLEARLY money-grabbing ones.

A judge can throw it out if they wanted to. I interned for a judge once and they had one of the worst put together cases thrown out because it would have been a waste of his time listening to it all. They pleaded their case and before the defendent could even say anything he threw it out.

If they are willing to shell out money to hire a lawyer for something like this, I would gladly go to court just so I could laugh at them.

 

[CheerBank]

Update which I posted in other Illegal Atlete thread as well:

Even more updates on the team that took an underage athlete to Worlds and was actually dq'd although no one knows it but their coaches:

• the USASF does not notify the athletes that the team was disqualified only the coaches.
• a team can be dq'd however their routine still scored and ranked amongst other teams, as was what happened in this case, making it very easy for the coaches not to inform the athletes or parents that they were in fact disqualified. I believe it was referred to as a "disconnect between the official and the tabulation team" in this case. It was stated that they would have never been allowed to advance to the next round, but still, no one knows they were dq'd except the coaches who knew what they were doing was illegal in the first place
• the only course of action taken is not to allow them to compete in the same division the next year. There is nothing in place to disqualify an entire gym even if they have been found to cheat with ages more than one time.

I will say though that the USASF has been most responsive to questions in regards to this matter. They may not be giving the answers that we want to hear but at least they are responding.

 

[mollymags]

I truly don't understand why the penalty for using under or over age athletes isn't DQing the team from that year's event, making them pay back any monetary bids they received, and then banning ANY team from that gym from qualifying or competing at Worlds the following year. EPs already receive a list of who has bids every week, so they could just have a section at the top of that document for any programs that have been blacklisted for that year. Easy. And I feel that USASF wouldn't stand to lose any money (let's be honest, that's the bottom line here) because even if the program banned had multiple teams, the bids they would have earned that year would just go to someone else in the end.

Make an example out of someone and see how many gyms are scared straight after that.

It's sad that making a profit is more important than making this sport legitimate.

 

[ztaprincess]

Them saying that there is nothing in place for this is Bull crap:

I'm sorry but they can't ignore that they have that in black and white in their Worlds Packet. That team should not be allowed for ANY type of bid next year and are suppose to pay their entire Paid Bid back.

 

[CheerBank]

Them saying that there is nothing in place for this is Bull crap:

I'm sorry but they can't ignore that they have that in black and white in their Worlds Packet. That team should not be allowed for ANY type of bid next year and are suppose to pay their entire Paid Bid back.

You are absolutely right. That team had an at-large bid so there is nothing to pay back. But they should not be allowed to come back to Worlds next year with any team at all. The saga now continues....