All-Star Is It A Failure To Not Progress?

[BuegeSmalls]

Maybe you set yourself free...

Must have! Lol

 

[Pebbles49]

Hey Everyone, I want to be upfront and let everyone know- I am playing Devil's Advocate in this debate...

Hey since my daughter joined this sport/activity of AS Cheerleading, one thing I noticed we are failing to do is define progression and decide if we are going after AS cheerleading as a legitimate sport or is it an activity for fun... When my daughter was doing gymnastics, the parameters were made very clear, each year to maintain a level, you must do ABC and everybody understood this.. But when I read many of posts many of us are guilty of minimizing the amount of work that is involved to being a L5 athlete or elite athlete in this sport... I seriously wonder if this sport can be recognized by outsiders if we cast off our best levels and equate those levels as not being successful in our sport, we call AS Cheer...Just saying!


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[Cheermom1969]

Hey Everyone, I want to be upfront and let everyone know- I am playing Devil's Advocate in this debate...

Hey since my daughter joined this sport/activity of AS Cheerleading, one thing I noticed we are failing to do is define progression and decide if we are going after AS cheerleading as a legitimate sport or is it an activity for fun... When my daughter was doing gymnastics, the parameters were made very clear, each year to maintain a level, you must do ABC and everybody understood this.. But when I read many of posts many of us are guilty of minimizing the amount of work that is involved to being a L5 athlete or elite athlete in this sport... I seriously wonder if this sport can be recognized by outsiders if we cast off our best levels and equate those levels as not being successful in our sport, we call AS Cheer...Just saying!


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I don't think you could find one person on here who doesn't recognize the amount of work and dedication it takes to be a level 5 athlete.

 

[dawgshow]

Who in the cheer world minimizes the effort required :confused:


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[dawgshow]

Furthermore, what does being L5 have to do with your original post asking if lack of progression = failure? I'm confused.


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[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Having been involved in all stars, pre-Worlds, I agree with @King in that everyone is not going to be Level 5.

As to defining progress, one of my mentors in my coaching career was a gymnastics coach. Gymnastics focuses on perfecting the technique of a set of skills before moving on to new ones.

My philosophy is similar. The goal is not push athletes through skills and levels but to have them develop awesome technique before doing so.

Based on that, I have a very "all skills for that level or close to it with good technique" perspective on levels. I have had kids be on L2 for 2 seasons because the BHS was not quite where it needed to be to advance to L3.

Opinions on this may vary but with that mindset, I view success as perfecting technique and becoming well-rounded at that level before moving on. Again, that's not everyone's thing, but it has worked well for programs I've worked with in the past.

 

[Mommatotwo]

Unfortunately, my CP is not a tumbler. She works so hard and is an awesome stunter, and dancer. I would never tell her after 7 years of cheer that she had to go to rec cheer because she won't make level 5. She loves what she does and it is a big part of her life. Her team won Cheersport last year and also made it to the Summit. Her tumbling level should not define her passion for the sport of cheer.


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[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

^^^^There are also kids who will max out at say, Senior 3 simply because they were dedicated to another sport like soccer for most of HS and could not put in the gym time to get to L5 (if you are not gifted with tumbling, it takes WORK and gym time.)

I cannot say that that athlete is any less successful than a Worlds kid.

Worlds is great but it has become the standard for success in cheer (for better and for worse.)

I cheered all star when it was just novice, intermediate, and advanced and there were no Worlds. By Worlds standards I probably wouldn't be considered a success, even as someone who went on to coach and cheer in college. Crazy.

 

[BigBow]

This subject really gets me going.

Clearly level 5 athletes are successful.

BUT, I coach level 1. I had a 6 year old on my team this year that was also on a level 1 team last year and most likely will be again next year. She came in with a bwo but has since mastered her double bwo and fwo, continued to improve her basing skills, learned how to fly (bow and scorpion), and is working on her bhs. But that shouldn't be considered success because she will spend 3 years on level 1?


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[Zinger_bebe]

^^^^There are also kids who will max out at say, Senior 3 simply because they were dedicated to another sport like soccer for most of HS and could not put in the gym time to get to L5 (if you are not gifted with tumbling, it takes WORK and gym

Not to mention $$. For an average, not necessarily "gifted" athlete it takes privates, tumbling classes and lots of time in the gym.

My CP has been at level 2 for five seasons. She gained many skills at an early age, and wasn't mentally ready to handle it all. She is currently working on elite tumbling skills, but she just now has the maturity and stamina and confidence to handle a higher level. It's not always about skill.

Many gyms also don't have the breadth to support level and age appropriate teams. Technically my CP may have been ready to move up two years ago, but honestly, I am not sure she was mentally ready to compete with older girls with much harder stunting skills. Had a youth level three team been available it would probably have been a good fit. I don't consider it a failure at all...in fact, failure may have come had she moved up too quickly. Burnout is a real issue.

At any given competition, compare the number of lower level teams compared to those that are level 5. Many athletes will never have that opportunity and some may not have access to a gym where they can advance to that level. Some may never progress past a back handspring. We can all be proud of the hard work these athletes put in whether it be level 1 or level 5.


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[UCFKnights07]

i dont think it would be considered a failure, if the kid is still happy regardless of what level, then i would consider that a win. i can see why CA sets the standards for each level like they do now, but i can also see why a lot of gyms dont.

 

[njallday]

Hey Everyone, I want to be upfront and let everyone know- I am playing Devil's Advocate in this debate...

Hey since my daughter joined this sport/activity of AS Cheerleading, one thing I noticed we are failing to do is define progression and decide if we are going after AS cheerleading as a legitimate sport or is it an activity for fun... When my daughter was doing gymnastics, the parameters were made very clear, each year to maintain a level, you must do ABC and everybody understood this.. But when I read many of posts many of us are guilty of minimizing the amount of work that is involved to being a L5 athlete or elite athlete in this sport... I seriously wonder if this sport can be recognized by outsiders if we cast off our best levels and equate those levels as not being successful in our sport, we call AS Cheer...Just saying!


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so do you consider all gymnasts who don't make it to the olympics a failure?

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

She gained many skills at an early age, and wasn't mentally ready to handle it all.

This, too.

Unpopular opinion alert: Not everyone can MENTALLY HANDLE a Worlds team. Every kid with L5 skills is NOT Worlds ready.

Going from say J4, to Senior 5 is not a huge jump in skills, but as far as maturity, it may be.

If you have rather old Senior teams where everyone is in HS, going from a junior team to Seniors and Worlds before they have proven they can mentally handle it is asking for a burn out.

A friend's daughter has been on L4 for 2 years for this very reason. She is still mentally rather young and her performance is not consistent.

I think this is where a QUALITY Restricted 5 team comes into play. It's important to have that as a training ground for those kids with Worlds potential who are not quite ready.

 

[Ally13]

Hey Everyone, I want to be upfront and let everyone know- I am playing Devil's Advocate in this debate...

Hey since my daughter joined this sport/activity of AS Cheerleading, one thing I noticed we are failing to do is define progression and decide if we are going after AS cheerleading as a legitimate sport or is it an activity for fun... When my daughter was doing gymnastics, the parameters were made very clear, each year to maintain a level, you must do ABC and everybody understood this.. But when I read many of posts many of us are guilty of minimizing the amount of work that is involved to being a L5 athlete or elite athlete in this sport... I seriously wonder if this sport can be recognized by outsiders if we cast off our best levels and equate those levels as not being successful in our sport, we call AS Cheer...Just saying!


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I don't think anybody is minimizing the amount of work it takes to be a L5 athlete or to be an elite cheerleader. I think people are just stating that there is more to cheerleading than L5/Worlds and that just because you do not make it to that level does not mean you're a failure. Not everyone can be an elite cheerleader or an Olympic gymnast and not everybody has the drive to. If they work hard, do their best, and love what they do what's wrong with that? I consider that a success. Just my thoughts.

 

[minamay]

Personally speaking, I hit level three skills at about 14 years old and never had the desire to progress farther than that. This was partially because of fear and partially because for me cheerleading after that age was just about enjoying the time I had left. At the time there were no gyms in my area that offered level four teams. I worked my butt off to get those level three skills, though. I was on level two for about three years before moving to level three. And after that I had somewhat burned out. I pushed myself so much to get that back tuck that it took the fun out of everything. So I stayed level three for the last four years of my career and I was happy with that, which for my parents was enough of a success to keep paying.

Now looking back do I almost wish I had continued so I could have been level five? Perhaps. But what's done is done and I enjoyed my time in the sport anyhow. I suppose there's always open teams should I have the desire to still want to attend worlds once or something.