All-Star Just A "worlds" Thought This Morning...

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So this morning sitting I had an epiphany, so could “Worlds” itself be the culprit in all this unsafe business??? I have been in allstars for 17 years, as a parent, watching both my daughters grow up as awesome cheerleaders.

Today it occurred to me that when Worlds began, I myself thought this is awesome!!! Showcase the Best of the Best. What a great idea. Now this morning I am saying hmmmmm...
It is now, OMG I have to get my child on a Worlds team, to the point people fly, drive hours upon hours just to be at a gym with an awesome “Worlds Team” . Nothing wrong with that I was drinking the kool-aid too!! But now I am wondering, is this the cause for the unsafe teams with scary stunts, bad “janky’ tumbling?? It is to the point we start at smaller gyms that either can’t field a level 5, so they lose elite athletes. Or they create the best level 5 team they can with 8 kids that have NO business being on it, 7 maybes, and 5 TRUE level five athletes. But if they don’t field that team, they lose the kids to the bigger gyms because they are 12 or older and deserve to be on a what??? A “Worlds Team”!! People get mad if they have to be on lower level team or not on the senior team. We all hear the mom of the 12 year with the full (and only a full) saying my daughter better make the a Sr 5 team or we are leaving blah blah blah... People are blindsided once again due to that “Worlds” stigma.

We keep pushing the small gym to throw unsafe routines to keep athletes happy, we have the bigger gyms fielding teams with crossovers for bids, only to be replaced by those more inexperienced to get what to “Worlds”

Maybe, just maybe Worlds should be changed a little and let the best of the best go in all sr. aged levels?? Not give out as many bids, and do the top 20 teams in every Sr. level. I know there is an all levels, but that does not carry the same stigma as the almighty “Worlds” and I don’t know that this will be the fix, but something needs fixed in our industry because it is definitely broken!!
 
So this morning sitting I had an epiphany, so could “Worlds” itself be the culprit in all this unsafe business??? I have been in allstars for 17 years, as a parent, watching both my daughters grow up as awesome cheerleaders.

Today it occurred to me that when Worlds began, I myself thought this is awesome!!! Showcase the Best of the Best. What a great idea. Now this morning I am saying hmmmmm...
It is now, OMG I have to get my child on a Worlds team, to the point people fly, drive hours upon hours just to be at a gym with an awesome “Worlds Team” . Nothing wrong with that I was drinking the kool-aid too!! But now I am wondering, is this the cause for the unsafe teams with scary stunts, bad “janky’ tumbling?? It is to the point we start at smaller gyms that either can’t field a level 5, so they lose elite athletes. Or they create the best level 5 team they can with 8 kids that have NO business being on it, 7 maybes, and 5 TRUE level five athletes. But if they don’t field that team, they lose the kids to the bigger gyms because they are 12 or older and deserve to be on a what??? A “Worlds Team”!! People get mad if they have to be on lower level team or not on the senior team. We all hear the mom of the 12 year with the full (and only a full) saying my daughter better make the a Sr 5 team or we are leaving blah blah blah... People are blindsided once again due to that “Worlds” stigma.

We keep pushing the small gym to throw unsafe routines to keep athletes happy, we have the bigger gyms fielding teams with crossovers for bids, only to be replaced by those more inexperienced to get what to “Worlds”

Maybe, just maybe Worlds should be changed a little and let the best of the best go in all sr. aged levels?? Not give out as many bids, and do the top 20 teams in every Sr. level. I know there is an all levels, but that does not carry the same stigma as the almighty “Worlds” and I don’t know that this will be the fix, but something needs fixed in our industry because it is definitely broken!!
That's an interesting thought especially if the bids were limited (paid only) instead of poured out all over the place. You could keep the same total number of competing teams just have a range of skill levels.

I think that migh help international teams as well. They aren't competitive in level 5 thought no fault of their own, but could probably rock at level three while their industry grows. Then they could safely progress to level 5 as well.
 
So this morning sitting I had an epiphany, so could “Worlds” itself be the culprit in all this unsafe business??? I have been in allstars for 17 years, as a parent, watching both my daughters grow up as awesome cheerleaders.

Today it occurred to me that when Worlds began, I myself thought this is awesome!!! Showcase the Best of the Best. What a great idea. Now this morning I am saying hmmmmm...
It is now, OMG I have to get my child on a Worlds team, to the point people fly, drive hours upon hours just to be at a gym with an awesome “Worlds Team” . Nothing wrong with that I was drinking the kool-aid too!! But now I am wondering, is this the cause for the unsafe teams with scary stunts, bad “janky’ tumbling?? It is to the point we start at smaller gyms that either can’t field a level 5, so they lose elite athletes. Or they create the best level 5 team they can with 8 kids that have NO business being on it, 7 maybes, and 5 TRUE level five athletes. But if they don’t field that team, they lose the kids to the bigger gyms because they are 12 or older and deserve to be on a what??? A “Worlds Team”!! People get mad if they have to be on lower level team or not on the senior team. We all hear the mom of the 12 year with the full (and only a full) saying my daughter better make the a Sr 5 team or we are leaving blah blah blah... People are blindsided once again due to that “Worlds” stigma.

We keep pushing the small gym to throw unsafe routines to keep athletes happy, we have the bigger gyms fielding teams with crossovers for bids, only to be replaced by those more inexperienced to get what to “Worlds”

Maybe, just maybe Worlds should be changed a little and let the best of the best go in all sr. aged levels?? Not give out as many bids, and do the top 20 teams in every Sr. level. I know there is an all levels, but that does not carry the same stigma as the almighty “Worlds” and I don’t know that this will be the fix, but something needs fixed in our industry because it is definitely broken!!

I don't agree w/this at all! Worlds is supposed to be for the elite of the elite lvl 5 teams! This is just another suggestion to lower the bar to let everyone fit in! Levels 1-4 already have Final Destination and All levels! Maybe those events should be moved to Orlando to give the same effect, but I seriously do no agree w/allowing lvls other then 5 compete at Worlds!

What needs to happen is that these small gyms need to be penalized for trying to make thier kids throw skills that are not safe or stable! There is already an issue w/teams that realistically are not lvl 5 getting at-large bids! I don't think this is the solution at all! It will water down an event that is supposed to be special and of an elite status! Ppl need to stop looking so far beyond themselves and put in the work like all of these level 5 atheletes and gyms have done! These small fairly new gyms want to come in to the industry as executives, when they really belong in the mail room putting in work, learning the ropes, and building on thier experience!
 
I don't agree w/this at all! Worlds is supposed to be for the elite of the elite lvl 5 teams! This is just another suggestion to lower the bar to let everyone fit in! Levels 1-4 already have Final Destination and All levels! Maybe those events should be moved to Orlando to give the same effect, but I seriously do no agree w/allowing lvls other then 5 compete at Worlds!

What needs to happen is that these small gyms need to be penalized for trying to make thier kids throw skills that are not safe or stable! There is already an issue w/teams that realistically are not lvl 5 getting at-large bids! I don't think this is the solution at all! It will water down an event that is supposed to be special and of an elite status! Ppl need to stop looking so far beyond themselves and put in the work like all of these level 5 atheletes and gyms have done! These small fairly new gyms want to come in to the industry as executives, when they really belong in the mail room putting in work, learning the ropes, and building on thier experience!

This post was not for personal gain at all just something I have observed the industry do to themselves. I don't feel you fully read my post or got my point which was Worlds has made parents and children feel like you are nothing if you don't go to Worlds. When I was at Worlds last year it was not the elite of the elite....restricted teams could have beat teams that got bids. My point was the industry in broken, the way people think, rules being made.
 
I don't agree w/this at all! Worlds is supposed to be for the elite of the elite lvl 5 teams! This is just another suggestion to lower the bar to let everyone fit in! Levels 1-4 already have Final Destination and All levels! Maybe those events should be moved to Orlando to give the same effect, but I seriously do no agree w/allowing lvls other then 5 compete at Worlds!
The problem with this is that these are still local events. We're competing against the same gyms from the surrounding areas we have ALL SEASON. The fun of Worlds is everyone competes all together from across the country, no waiting for an Internet tabulation. Until We make U.S. Finals/ IALC one large event like Worlds, they will not be equals. ANd that will never happen because that would mean flying Tinies and Minis across the country and having 3rd gradres miss school to compete. Parents would never go for it.
 
This post was not for personal gain at all just something I have observed the industry do to themselves. I don't feel you fully read my post or got my point which was Worlds has made parents and children feel like you are nothing if you don't go to Worlds. When I was at Worlds last year it was not the elite of the elite....restricted teams could have beat teams that got bids. My point was the industry in broken, the way people think, rules being made.


Nothing on here is personal to me unless you name me personally and even if you do, no one on here knows me, so don't take what I say personally either b/c I don't know you! This is a forum for discussion and this is my opinion.

I just don't agree w/letting levels other then 5 attend Worlds! Allowing those other levels to go won't fix the problem! Penalizing those teams that are at Worlds that shouldn't be there is a better fix! Maybe competitions should start saying if you don't get this score you don't get a bid! When teams compete in a division by themselves, in order to claim 1st place they have to beat a score. Maybe competitions should start making these teams beat a certain score to get a worlds bid.

In addition, parents will still push thier kids to be beyond where the really should be as well as gyms unless they start to get penalized!
 
I don't agree w/this at all! Worlds is supposed to be for the elite of the elite lvl 5 teams! This is just another suggestion to lower the bar to let everyone fit in! Levels 1-4 already have Final Destination and All levels! Maybe those events should be moved to Orlando to give the same effect, but I seriously do no agree w/allowing lvls other then 5 compete at Worlds!

What needs to happen is that these small gyms need to be penalized for trying to make thier kids throw skills that are not safe or stable! There is already an issue w/teams that realistically are not lvl 5 getting at-large bids! I don't think this is the solution at all! It will water down an event that is supposed to be special and of an elite status! Ppl need to stop looking so far beyond themselves and put in the work like all of these level 5 atheletes and gyms have done! These small fairly new gyms want to come in to the industry as executives, when they really belong in the mail room putting in work, learning the ropes, and building on thier experience!

I have to say that I've seen janky tumbling from large gyms as well so it's not just the small gyms. Plus not all small gyms are "fairly new". My CPs belong to a small gym that is going on their 13th season. We share space with a very successful gymnastics center so we have gymnastics coaches with years of experience that also teach tumbling to the cheerleaders.
 
The problem with this is that these are still local events. We're competing against the same gyms from the surrounding areas we have ALL SEASON. The fun of Worlds is everyone competes all together from across the country, no waiting for an Internet tabulation. Until We make U.S. Finals/ IALC one large event like Worlds, they will not be equals. ANd that will never happen because that would mean flying Tinies and Minis across the country and having 3rd gradres miss school to compete. Parents would never go for it.


Last year was the 1st year Final Destination came to DC and there were teams there from up and down the east coast. it was not just local teams. If these gyms want to see teams from around the country then go to Nationals outside of your area! Jamfest in Indy, Cheersport in Atlanta, NCA in Dallas, Battle under the Big Top, Battle at the Capital in Maryland; these competitions are HUGE and will more then give kids exposure to other gyms around the country and will also give the gym more exposure! It doesn't just have to be Worlds! In addition, you don't have to just compete at Final Destination or All Levels in your area! I'm sure you have the option to go to which ever one you want. I don't recall them saying you have to compete in your specific region.
 
I have to say that I've seen janky tumbling from large gyms as well so it's not just the small gyms. Plus not all small gyms are "fairly new". My CPs belong to a small gym that is going on their 13th season. We share space with a very successful gymnastics center so we have gymnastics coaches with years of experience that also teach tumbling to the cheerleaders.

Actually I should not have said small gyms, but any gym that is not putting a safe routine on the floor. I've seen gyms that have been around for over 8 yrs and still put questionable routines on the floor! Longevity does not always = good, lol! They just have loyalty, parents that don't want to travel to another gym b/c it's out of thier travel area, or it costs to much to go to a more qualified gym.
 
They do every year go watch the IOC and IOC5 divisions!!! They had some teams lucky to be level 2 and 1 athlete throwing a full.

that's ok, i'll be to busy jocking for position to see the teams in the milkhouse, lol
 
So this morning sitting I had an epiphany, so could “Worlds” itself be the culprit in all this unsafe business??? I have been in allstars for 17 years, as a parent, watching both my daughters grow up as awesome cheerleaders.

Today it occurred to me that when Worlds began, I myself thought this is awesome!!! Showcase the Best of the Best. What a great idea. Now this morning I am saying hmmmmm...
It is now, OMG I have to get my child on a Worlds team, to the point people fly, drive hours upon hours just to be at a gym with an awesome “Worlds Team” . Nothing wrong with that I was drinking the kool-aid too!! But now I am wondering, is this the cause for the unsafe teams with scary stunts, bad “janky’ tumbling?? It is to the point we start at smaller gyms that either can’t field a level 5, so they lose elite athletes. Or they create the best level 5 team they can with 8 kids that have NO business being on it, 7 maybes, and 5 TRUE level five athletes. But if they don’t field that team, they lose the kids to the bigger gyms because they are 12 or older and deserve to be on a what??? A “Worlds Team”!! People get mad if they have to be on lower level team or not on the senior team. We all hear the mom of the 12 year with the full (and only a full) saying my daughter better make the a Sr 5 team or we are leaving blah blah blah... People are blindsided once again due to that “Worlds” stigma.

We keep pushing the small gym to throw unsafe routines to keep athletes happy, we have the bigger gyms fielding teams with crossovers for bids, only to be replaced by those more inexperienced to get what to “Worlds”

Maybe, just maybe Worlds should be changed a little and let the best of the best go in all sr. aged levels?? Not give out as many bids, and do the top 20 teams in every Sr. level. I know there is an all levels, but that does not carry the same stigma as the almighty “Worlds” and I don’t know that this will be the fix, but something needs fixed in our industry because it is definitely broken!!

I think you hit on one part of the problem. Personally I believe there are many culprits with each one pointing fingers at the other saying it is not my fault, while not acknowledging their role in the madness. In the words of Pogo - We have seen the enemy - he is us.

The biggest issue I see IMO is we want Worlds to be a sporting event best of the best only, while those that run it (USASF/Varsity) see it primarily as a business enterprise. As a business they have to sell the dream that you are one of the best of the best to more people because that is how they make their $$$. The chase for the dream is lucrative. They don't care about that team from Janktastic All Stars that got a last minute bid, or You Gotta Be Kidding Me Cheer who is paying their own way on an At Large. Who cares if they only compete one day? Because they are putting $$$ in the pot for them.

We blame the coaches of teams like this for not realizing it, or setting their kids up for disappointment because they wont win Worlds yet we have no problem with the larger gyms recruiting the talent out of small gyms so they can never really build a team up. We dont understand why the small gyms wont just be content being a small Level 1 and 2 gym and sending everybody else up the road to another gym where they can "really shine." Which is nothing more than a backhanded pimp slap at the small gym. They sell the dream of your child needs to be on a Senior 5 team now so they can go to Worlds. If your gym doesn't have one it is a waste of your tine and money to stay there and build one, but go somewhere else.

There is minimal Industry wide training for coaches as well as certification. It either can't be afforded or is too cumbersome to deal with. So where do these coaches go that want to get better? Who want to build a program up the right way? Who want their coaches to be properly trained and certified to whatever levels they have? What about the bi-vocational coaches that can't afford to take off of work to go to the likes of Dorral?

Gyms are routinely dogged out for not having level 5 teams, for not being in Worlds Divisions, not getting a bid, etc. It is not just the kids doing it either. Adults participate as well. We have created the unfortunate mindset that the first time a gym puts together a Level 5 team they must be able to hit the scoresheet tghe first time out like Stingrays, SOT, Cali, or else they should be in the restricted division or in level 4. That to me is pure foolishness. A baby has to grow at the proper rate otherwise it becomes dysfunctional and deformed. Same with gym programs. It takes time to grow a program. We have no patience and no time to let them grow. We all want it all and we want it right now. Patience is no longer seen as a virtue but a vice. The first team I was one of the coaches of that went to Worlds had no doubles on the floor at Worlds. None. The comments we heard in the community and those posted on YouTube, the old boards, etc from the kids from many programs and some adults were beyond painful. If they hurt me as an adult, you know they hurt the kids. Yet that same program has been to Worlds every year since and last year tied for 7th in their division. So the experience of going apparently did them pretty good. Yet we want to deny gyms that ability to have the experience, never knowing what the future of that program will be.

Level 5 has become the holy grail. Any mention of any other division is almost an afterthought, unless it is an issue of excessive crossovers or sandbagging. On this personally I think there should be something more for these levels - even if it is not Worlds so to speak, but the argument is always raised about the costs of flying younger teams all around the country for one event. That parents won't pay that kind of money. And of course that Worlds is only for level 5. So again we put the carrot in front of them that says if you want to be "special" you got to become a level 5.

Then there are some parents that blamed that are pushing for their kids to be promoted faster than they are ready. They are more worried about social promotion of their kids so they can keep up with another child rather than just progress at the safe and proper rate for them. They haven't yet perfected BHS yet they want to be in a Tuck class. Their layout is nothing but a whipped over BHS with no hands yet they are pushing the coaches to get them twisting. They threaten the coaches with leaving if they don't get their way. How can they do that? Because they have already consulted with the other gym and have a placement for their child on the team they want - or so they think. Many times that child will get to practice with the higher team during the summer, only to be dropped down at the end of the summer if they don't fix the skills.

Lastly instead of dealing with the matters that really matter in fixing our rules and governance, the USASF violates its own process to hand down another tone deaf edict that they have to retract and rework. And they still don't get that with the majority while not happy with the rule changes they would adjust, it was the process that ticked everyone off. You say you are doing it for the betterment of the sport - when you only see it as a business - without our input. You offend a majority segment of your client base that you still haven't apologized to, and now you are probably thinking how to keep them from jumping ship.

Rant over. We all need to step away and see what we can do to make it better. Not just for us as individuals but for the industry. If it takes another governing body, so be it. I will continue to make my stands where I can. I will continue to encourage the small gyms and small gym owners to hang in there and don't lose their dream to the power of the conglomerate. I will continue to teach and train athletes patiently knowing I do this because I love working with kids and seeing them successful, whether it is a cartwheel, a front walkover or a double full. To see the smile on their face and to know I positively impacted their life is enough for me to keep at this. I will continue to train the new staff that come to me for help and guidance. I will continue to believe in the power of my dream. To be better today than I was yesterday.
 
I mentioned in another thread, but what about a "Level 4 Worlds" on the West Coast?

And I know the whole "juniors at worlds, level 4 worlds" has been beat to death but hear me out...

The Open level 4 is new, and could have a place at this event (and it doesn't need to be called a "Worlds"). And having an event on the west coast would help international teams coming from the East (Asia, Australia.). Think of this competition as being a stepping stone for the true "Worlds.". Fewer bids to the real Worlds and open up a whole new competition.
 
I think you hit on one part of the problem. Personally I believe there are many culprits with each one pointing fingers at the other saying it is not my fault, while not acknowledging their role in the madness. In the words of Pogo - We have seen the enemy - he is us.

The biggest issue I see IMO is we want Worlds to be a sporting event best of the best only, while those that run it (USASF/Varsity) see it primarily as a business enterprise. As a business they have to sell the dream that you are one of the best of the best to more people because that is how they make their $$$. The chase for the dream is lucrative. They don't care about that team from Janktastic All Stars that got a last minute bid, or You Gotta Be Kidding Me Cheer who is paying their own way on an At Large. Who cares if they only compete one day? Because they are putting $$$ in the pot for them.

We blame the coaches of teams like this for not realizing it, or setting their kids up for disappointment because they wont win Worlds yet we have no problem with the larger gyms recruiting the talent out of small gyms so they can never really build a team up. We dont understand why the small gyms wont just be content being a small Level 1 and 2 gym and sending everybody else up the road to another gym where they can "really shine." Which is nothing more than a backhanded pimp slap at the small gym. They sell the dream of your child needs to be on a Senior 5 team now so they can go to Worlds. If your gym doesn't have one it is a waste of your tine and money to stay there and build one, but go somewhere else.

There is minimal Industry wide training for coaches as well as certification. It either can't be afforded or is too cumbersome to deal with. So where do these coaches go that want to get better? Who want to build a program up the right way? Who want their coaches to be properly trained and certified to whatever levels they have? What about the bi-vocational coaches that can't afford to take off of work to go to the likes of Dorral?

Gyms are routinely dogged out for not having level 5 teams, for not being in Worlds Divisions, not getting a bid, etc. It is not just the kids doing it either. Adults participate as well. We have created the unfortunate mindset that the first time a gym puts together a Level 5 team they must be able to hit the scoresheet tghe first time out like Stingrays, SOT, Cali, or else they should be in the restricted division or in level 4. That to me is pure foolishness. A baby has to grow at the proper rate otherwise it becomes dysfunctional and deformed. Same with gym programs. It takes time to grow a program. We have no patience and no time to let them grow. We all want it all and we want it right now. Patience is no longer seen as a virtue but a vice. The first team I was one of the coaches of that went to Worlds had no doubles on the floor at Worlds. None. The comments we heard in the community and those posted on YouTube, the old boards, etc from the kids from many programs and some adults were beyond painful. If they hurt me as an adult, you know they hurt the kids. Yet that same program has been to Worlds every year since and last year tied for 7th in their division. So the experience of going apparently did them pretty good. Yet we want to deny gyms that ability to have the experience, never knowing what the future of that program will be.

Level 5 has become the holy grail. Any mention of any other division is almost an afterthought, unless it is an issue of excessive crossovers or sandbagging. On this personally I think there should be something more for these levels - even if it is not Worlds so to speak, but the argument is always raised about the costs of flying younger teams all around the country for one event. That parents won't pay that kind of money. And of course that Worlds is only for level 5. So again we put the carrot in front of them that says if you want to be "special" you got to become a level 5.

Then there are some parents that blamed that are pushing for their kids to be promoted faster than they are ready. They are more worried about social promotion of their kids so they can keep up with another child rather than just progress at the safe and proper rate for them. They haven't yet perfected BHS yet they want to be in a Tuck class. Their layout is nothing but a whipped over BHS with no hands yet they are pushing the coaches to get them twisting. They threaten the coaches with leaving if they don't get their way. How can they do that? Because they have already consulted with the other gym and have a placement for their child on the team they want - or so they think. Many times that child will get to practice with the higher team during the summer, only to be dropped down at the end of the summer if they don't fix the skills.

Lastly instead of dealing with the matters that really matter in fixing our rules and governance, the USASF violates its own process to hand down another tone deaf edict that they have to retract and rework. And they still don't get that with the majority while not happy with the rule changes they would adjust, it was the process that ticked everyone off. You say you are doing it for the betterment of the sport - when you only see it as a business - without our input. You offend a majority segment of your client base that you still haven't apologized to, and now you are probably thinking how to keep them from jumping ship.

Rant over. We all need to step away and see what we can do to make it better. Not just for us as individuals but for the industry. If it takes another governing body, so be it. I will continue to make my stands where I can. I will continue to encourage the small gyms and small gym owners to hang in there and don't lose their dream to the power of the conglomerate. I will continue to teach and train athletes patiently knowing I do this because I love working with kids and seeing them successful, whether it is a cartwheel, a front walkover or a double full. To see the smile on their face and to know I positively impacted their life is enough for me to keep at this. I will continue to train the new staff that come to me for help and guidance. I will continue to believe in the power of my dream. To be better today than I was yesterday.


One thing I can say about the area I am in is that everybody pretty much knows everybody and/or is familiar w/everybody! If a CP thinks they are going to come from a gym that put them on lvl 3-4 to be on a lvl 4-5 and they don't have the proper skills, they will be dissappointed! I've seen it happen numerous times! And that's from the biggest gyms to the medium gyms.
 
One thing I can say about the area I am in is that everybody pretty much knows everybody and/or is familiar w/everybody! If a CP thinks they are going to come from a gym that put them on lvl 3-4 to be on a lvl 4-5 and they don't have the proper skills, they will be dissappointed! I've seen it happen numerous times! And that's from the biggest gyms to the medium gyms.

That is great to hear and that is how I think it should be. This way you are put in a level bidding war with parents and kids. But when you can strengthen your gym by one or more - because you can never forget the friends that they may pull with them, and weaken your competitor by one or more at the same time, I am not surprised at all at what is offered.
 
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