All-Star Just A "worlds" Thought This Morning...

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What do you think the 50% +1 rule will do. It will open worlds up even more. This is nothing more than a marketing scheme and way for marginal teams to compete with teams and athletes who have not put in their time building to a competitve level. Level the playing field so "No Gym is Left Behind". Again this rule applies to all levels. My daughter has worked hard to make it to a highly competitve 5 team. However, when I go to a comp I really enjoy seeing level 2's with full squad bhs or level 4's with full squad standing tuck. What does this say about the industry of cheer? They have to find any and every way to reward mediocrity - the real world does not work like this so why should cheer? I just wish the powers that be would have more faith in the kids to rise to the occasion through everything cheer says it wants to be.
 
I think you hit on one part of the problem. Personally I believe there are many culprits with each one pointing fingers at the other saying it is not my fault, while not acknowledging their role in the madness. In the words of Pogo - We have seen the enemy - he is us.

The biggest issue I see IMO is we want Worlds to be a sporting event best of the best only, while those that run it (USASF/Varsity) see it primarily as a business enterprise. As a business they have to sell the dream that you are one of the best of the best to more people because that is how they make their $$$. The chase for the dream is lucrative. They don't care about that team from Janktastic All Stars that got a last minute bid, or You Gotta Be Kidding Me Cheer who is paying their own way on an At Large. Who cares if they only compete one day? Because they are putting $$$ in the pot for them.

We blame the coaches of teams like this for not realizing it, or setting their kids up for disappointment because they wont win Worlds yet we have no problem with the larger gyms recruiting the talent out of small gyms so they can never really build a team up. We dont understand why the small gyms wont just be content being a small Level 1 and 2 gym and sending everybody else up the road to another gym where they can "really shine." Which is nothing more than a backhanded pimp slap at the small gym. They sell the dream of your child needs to be on a Senior 5 team now so they can go to Worlds. If your gym doesn't have one it is a waste of your tine and money to stay there and build one, but go somewhere else.

There is minimal Industry wide training for coaches as well as certification. It either can't be afforded or is too cumbersome to deal with. So where do these coaches go that want to get better? Who want to build a program up the right way? Who want their coaches to be properly trained and certified to whatever levels they have? What about the bi-vocational coaches that can't afford to take off of work to go to the likes of Dorral?

Gyms are routinely dogged out for not having level 5 teams, for not being in Worlds Divisions, not getting a bid, etc. It is not just the kids doing it either. Adults participate as well. We have created the unfortunate mindset that the first time a gym puts together a Level 5 team they must be able to hit the scoresheet tghe first time out like Stingrays, SOT, Cali, or else they should be in the restricted division or in level 4. That to me is pure foolishness. A baby has to grow at the proper rate otherwise it becomes dysfunctional and deformed. Same with gym programs. It takes time to grow a program. We have no patience and no time to let them grow. We all want it all and we want it right now. Patience is no longer seen as a virtue but a vice. The first team I was one of the coaches of that went to Worlds had no doubles on the floor at Worlds. None. The comments we heard in the community and those posted on YouTube, the old boards, etc from the kids from many programs and some adults were beyond painful. If they hurt me as an adult, you know they hurt the kids. Yet that same program has been to Worlds every year since and last year tied for 7th in their division. So the experience of going apparently did them pretty good. Yet we want to deny gyms that ability to have the experience, never knowing what the future of that program will be.

Level 5 has become the holy grail. Any mention of any other division is almost an afterthought, unless it is an issue of excessive crossovers or sandbagging. On this personally I think there should be something more for these levels - even if it is not Worlds so to speak, but the argument is always raised about the costs of flying younger teams all around the country for one event. That parents won't pay that kind of money. And of course that Worlds is only for level 5. So again we put the carrot in front of them that says if you want to be "special" you got to become a level 5.

Then there are some parents that blamed that are pushing for their kids to be promoted faster than they are ready. They are more worried about social promotion of their kids so they can keep up with another child rather than just progress at the safe and proper rate for them. They haven't yet perfected BHS yet they want to be in a Tuck class. Their layout is nothing but a whipped over BHS with no hands yet they are pushing the coaches to get them twisting. They threaten the coaches with leaving if they don't get their way. How can they do that? Because they have already consulted with the other gym and have a placement for their child on the team they want - or so they think. Many times that child will get to practice with the higher team during the summer, only to be dropped down at the end of the summer if they don't fix the skills.

Lastly instead of dealing with the matters that really matter in fixing our rules and governance, the USASF violates its own process to hand down another tone deaf edict that they have to retract and rework. And they still don't get that with the majority while not happy with the rule changes they would adjust, it was the process that ticked everyone off. You say you are doing it for the betterment of the sport - when you only see it as a business - without our input. You offend a majority segment of your client base that you still haven't apologized to, and now you are probably thinking how to keep them from jumping ship.

Rant over. We all need to step away and see what we can do to make it better. Not just for us as individuals but for the industry. If it takes another governing body, so be it. I will continue to make my stands where I can. I will continue to encourage the small gyms and small gym owners to hang in there and don't lose their dream to the power of the conglomerate. I will continue to teach and train athletes patiently knowing I do this because I love working with kids and seeing them successful, whether it is a cartwheel, a front walkover or a double full. To see the smile on their face and to know I positively impacted their life is enough for me to keep at this. I will continue to train the new staff that come to me for help and guidance. I will continue to believe in the power of my dream. To be better today than I was yesterday.
 
Am i the only person who thinks there is no prestige in winning worlds? I dont get what all the fuss is...

HOWEVER, unfortunately Worlds has become our industry's pivotal marketing scheme (excuse me for lack of better word)....Its very similar to gymnastics in the fact that after a summer olympics year enrollment tends to go up, because kids see what these athletes do on tv, and they want to do that. Im sure it happens in many sports but I was a gymnast and I know that it happens with gymnastics for a fact. But back to the point, for example, Upon winning worlds last year Brandon Allstars had (from what I was told by a BA athlete) somewhere in the range of 150 new athletes in their gym this year. And it may not be because every single one of those kids watched Worlds on Tv, its because people tell other people and so by not having a worlds team (in this day and age) you are missing out on what is a marketing opportunity for your gym. this is simply my opinion

*also, I obviously know brandon did not just get more athletes by winning worlds, its also theur coaching staff who do a great job upon other things :)
 
Perhaps what they need is a regional system of qualification for the final trip to worlds. In other words, instead of that first day at worlds being at worlds make them regional but still run by usasf (no i cant believe i said that either). You win a bid to the regional qualifier, then the top 1-5 teams move on. This would preserve their profit margins allowing them to profit off the full spectrum of teams but keep all but the best from the final competition. It might take some of the pressure off the coaches by creating an intermediate goal that is still worlds oriented. That way all teams that eventually end up at worlds would be there on a paid bid and would have had to beat higher quality teams to get there. Who wants to make that trip all the way to worlds and not even be competitive?

At the end of the day maybe the thrill of Worlds is that it is the only competition that across the board is treated like the best vs the best. It's the only place you can really find out how you rate vs everyone. If you have a teams that rocks you will bring that team to Worlds. No other competition will draw the best from all over the country. So every other competition leaves even the winners with that doubt about who is really the best.

athlete #1 " my gym won 3 level 5 national championships this year" athlete #2 "Oh yeah my gym won 4 level 5 national championships this year" athlete #1 " really ? For what nation? I didn't see you there..."

Just a thought..


Dad to CP: " cheer to have fun honey"
CP to Dad: " I will Dad, winning Is lots of fun"
 
I think you hit on one part of the problem. Personally I believe there are many culprits with each one pointing fingers at the other saying it is not my fault, while not acknowledging their role in the madness. In the words of Pogo - We have seen the enemy - he is us.

The biggest issue I see IMO is we want Worlds to be a sporting event best of the best only, while those that run it (USASF/Varsity) see it primarily as a business enterprise. As a business they have to sell the dream that you are one of the best of the best to more people because that is how they make their $$$. The chase for the dream is lucrative. They don't care about that team from Janktastic All Stars that got a last minute bid, or You Gotta Be Kidding Me Cheer who is paying their own way on an At Large. Who cares if they only compete one day? Because they are putting $$$ in the pot for them.

We blame the coaches of teams like this for not realizing it, or setting their kids up for disappointment because they wont win Worlds yet we have no problem with the larger gyms recruiting the talent out of small gyms so they can never really build a team up. We dont understand why the small gyms wont just be content being a small Level 1 and 2 gym and sending everybody else up the road to another gym where they can "really shine." Which is nothing more than a backhanded pimp slap at the small gym. They sell the dream of your child needs to be on a Senior 5 team now so they can go to Worlds. If your gym doesn't have one it is a waste of your tine and money to stay there and build one, but go somewhere else.

There is minimal Industry wide training for coaches as well as certification. It either can't be afforded or is too cumbersome to deal with. So where do these coaches go that want to get better? Who want to build a program up the right way? Who want their coaches to be properly trained and certified to whatever levels they have? What about the bi-vocational coaches that can't afford to take off of work to go to the likes of Dorral?

Gyms are routinely dogged out for not having level 5 teams, for not being in Worlds Divisions, not getting a bid, etc. It is not just the kids doing it either. Adults participate as well. We have created the unfortunate mindset that the first time a gym puts together a Level 5 team they must be able to hit the scoresheet tghe first time out like Stingrays, SOT, Cali, or else they should be in the restricted division or in level 4. That to me is pure foolishness. A baby has to grow at the proper rate otherwise it becomes dysfunctional and deformed. Same with gym programs. It takes time to grow a program. We have no patience and no time to let them grow. We all want it all and we want it right now. Patience is no longer seen as a virtue but a vice. The first team I was one of the coaches of that went to Worlds had no doubles on the floor at Worlds. None. The comments we heard in the community and those posted on YouTube, the old boards, etc from the kids from many programs and some adults were beyond painful. If they hurt me as an adult, you know they hurt the kids. Yet that same program has been to Worlds every year since and last year tied for 7th in their division. So the experience of going apparently did them pretty good. Yet we want to deny gyms that ability to have the experience, never knowing what the future of that program will be.

Level 5 has become the holy grail. Any mention of any other division is almost an afterthought, unless it is an issue of excessive crossovers or sandbagging. On this personally I think there should be something more for these levels - even if it is not Worlds so to speak, but the argument is always raised about the costs of flying younger teams all around the country for one event. That parents won't pay that kind of money. And of course that Worlds is only for level 5. So again we put the carrot in front of them that says if you want to be "special" you got to become a level 5.

Then there are some parents that blamed that are pushing for their kids to be promoted faster than they are ready. They are more worried about social promotion of their kids so they can keep up with another child rather than just progress at the safe and proper rate for them. They haven't yet perfected BHS yet they want to be in a Tuck class. Their layout is nothing but a whipped over BHS with no hands yet they are pushing the coaches to get them twisting. They threaten the coaches with leaving if they don't get their way. How can they do that? Because they have already consulted with the other gym and have a placement for their child on the team they want - or so they think. Many times that child will get to practice with the higher team during the summer, only to be dropped down at the end of the summer if they don't fix the skills.

Lastly instead of dealing with the matters that really matter in fixing our rules and governance, the USASF violates its own process to hand down another tone deaf edict that they have to retract and rework. And they still don't get that with the majority while not happy with the rule changes they would adjust, it was the process that ticked everyone off. You say you are doing it for the betterment of the sport - when you only see it as a business - without our input. You offend a majority segment of your client base that you still haven't apologized to, and now you are probably thinking how to keep them from jumping ship.

Rant over. We all need to step away and see what we can do to make it better. Not just for us as individuals but for the industry. If it takes another governing body, so be it. I will continue to make my stands where I can. I will continue to encourage the small gyms and small gym owners to hang in there and don't lose their dream to the power of the conglomerate. I will continue to teach and train athletes patiently knowing I do this because I love working with kids and seeing them successful, whether it is a cartwheel, a front walkover or a double full. To see the smile on their face and to know I positively impacted their life is enough for me to keep at this. I will continue to train the new staff that come to me for help and guidance. I will continue to believe in the power of my dream. To be better today than I was yesterday.
You're my hero and I'll shimmy this until the cows come home..And I don't own cows.

Everything you said can been seen on this board. If its not Lv 5 and moreover, if it's not the powerhouse gyms that are household names, no one has any interest in talking about them. Someone will add a "awesome level 1 team" thread and it's basically ignored or laughed at because the only thing people want to talk about is Lv5 and if you don't have one capable of winning the whole thing,no one is wasting their time on you. That's the theme I see a lot and it's reflective of exactly what you said here. Look at the number of threads that came out about the new tumbling rules. Granted I threw my two cents in there but really....those rules don't effect the majority of our industry, but that's what gets play on the board. It seems to me if you're not in position to win a globe right now, you're not important. That attitude is the same one you're talking about and it's rampant all over the industry.

The parents pushing their kids to be coached in skills they're not ready for. That's in every gym. I think that pressure filters up to coaches and for those just trying to stay in an expensive business during bad economic times, that's likely where some of the blame should fall for putting the janktastic Allstars on the floor. Parents don't get (or dont want to hear) that their kid isn't ready...and still won't be ready even if they move to a mega gym...they just want to say their kid is on a lv 5 worlds team. The competition between parents to have the "best" kid is worse than the competition between kids.

Our gym is in its third year. We could've put together a lv5 in year two, but they weren't ready, so we didn't because we have coaches that are doing this right, whether its popular with all the parents or not. We did put it together for this year and were one of the ones with the at large bid in small coed that everyone is arguing shouldn't be allowed to come simply because we're at large. They've had moments of ridonkulous perfection where they've had an arenas collective jaw on the floor. They've also had moments of total train wrecks through the year as well...but that's exactly what happens to every gym as they grow and progress. I'd venture to say that even happens to the big dogs when they have new choreography or skills added to a routine. Our coaches talked to the judging panels (since they know basically everyone I the industry) for a no biased opinion regarding whether we should go. They were given a unanimous, yes! Even in the track wreck days, it wasn't due to skills, they have those, and they have them technically correct. It was just because it was one of "those days" that every team has experienced at some point and the fact these kids, while they have the skills...this is the first time any of them have ever competed lv5. Its about progression. They're ready for the next step and that's taking their at large bid to worlds and being realistic in the goals we set for a third year gym with a first year level 5.

I might be the only parent on the board who is NOT pushing my kids to level 5. They have time! My daughter is 11 and on our junior 4 which is appropriate for her. She has a consistent and technically correct standing tuck. Her layout is an actual "layout" in practice....it doesn't tend to be so in competition when she doesn't think it through. Hence....she is NOT READY TO SPIN. And thankfully our coaches are on the exact same page. She is a beast of a base. That girl can base anyone, and that stunt will hit if she has to give life and limb to have that happen. My son is 13 he's on a junior 3, his tucks are monstrous, his standing tucks are amazing..his layouts are not set high enough yet consistently. Body position is fabulous, set is too low....hence he's not ready to spin either. I'm good with that. I want a technically correct, hollow body, spotted ( meaning him spotting his set, not a coach spotting him) layout where he blocks, rides, spots, pushes his hips and produces a hollow body position. When he has that consistently....then I will let him spin, not a second before. Gratefully, that is EXACTLY how our coaches coach. Why can't that be good enough for now, he's 13?!

Why can't parents look at their kids objectively and have what they are capable of doing today be "good enough?" for today. They'll get to lv 5, we have the most amazing coaches in the industry and that will happen. But it will happen safely, when they're ready and when they can not only throw that skill correctly, but with the technique to have it score on the floor. They have time. I don't need my 11 year old on a lv 5. And gratefully, I could care less that my child isn't important to the sport as a whole because right now all she has is a layout and a standing tuck. I'm good with that. If everyone else could just be objective about what their kids can do and what they shouldn't do yet it would be a less dramatic industry.

Sorry...your rant got me ranting. I'm done now :D
 
That is one aspect of the cheer industry I can't stand, parents that bully coaches into putting their child on a team they are not ready for. Every year there are "gym hoppers" that are unhappy that Suzy got put on a Sr 3 team when they want them on a Sr 4 or 5. Then you go to a competition and there is Suzy on a Sr 4 but she is hiding in choreography and never throwing an actual level 4 skill. And it's all so the parents can strut around with their feathers puffed out bragging about how their child was ready for x team and the coaches at y gym couldn't see their potential. I would rather my child be on a amazing level 2 team and shine then get placed on a jr 3 and struggle all season to keep up. Some of these parents act like it's them winning that Worlds medal and not their child.
At our gym you are not allowed to layout until your tuck is high enough to clear your own standing height. Then the kids are conditioned to be hollow body, stretched, and not piked. Only then do they get to twist.
 
They do every year go watch the IOC and IOC5 divisions!!! They had some teams lucky to be level 2 and 1 athlete throwing a full.
I haven't been to Worlds yet and seen all the international teams there, but there's actually some international teams that have been placing in the top 3, without having everyone doing a full. Canada got first and Norway second in IAG 6 last year, and there were a couple of american teams competing against them. Yes, we definately lack in tumbling but not in the rest.
 
I haven't been to Worlds yet and seen all the international teams there, but there's actually some international teams that have been placing in the top 3, without having everyone doing a full. Canada got first and Norway second in IAG 6 last year, and there were a couple of american teams competing against them. Yes, we definately lack in tumbling but not in the rest.
I agree with that...I was replying to the comment elite of the elite. America and all countries have teams that slide through with bids with lower tumbling and stunting skills due to where they obtained the bid.
 
I agree with that...I was replying to the comment elite of the elite. America and all countries have teams that slide through with bids with lower tumbling and stunting skills due to where they obtained the bid.
True! And I agree with you that it's a problem...
 
I think you hit on one part of the problem. Personally I believe there are many culprits with each one pointing fingers at the other saying it is not my fault, while not acknowledging their role in the madness. In the words of Pogo - We have seen the enemy - he is us.

The biggest issue I see IMO is we want Worlds to be a sporting event best of the best only, while those that run it (USASF/Varsity) see it primarily as a business enterprise. As a business they have to sell the dream that you are one of the best of the best to more people because that is how they make their $$$. The chase for the dream is lucrative. They don't care about that team from Janktastic All Stars that got a last minute bid, or You Gotta Be Kidding Me Cheer who is paying their own way on an At Large. Who cares if they only compete one day? Because they are putting $$$ in the pot for them.

We blame the coaches of teams like this for not realizing it, or setting their kids up for disappointment because they wont win Worlds yet we have no problem with the larger gyms recruiting the talent out of small gyms so they can never really build a team up. We dont understand why the small gyms wont just be content being a small Level 1 and 2 gym and sending everybody else up the road to another gym where they can "really shine." Which is nothing more than a backhanded pimp slap at the small gym. They sell the dream of your child needs to be on a Senior 5 team now so they can go to Worlds. If your gym doesn't have one it is a waste of your tine and money to stay there and build one, but go somewhere else.

There is minimal Industry wide training for coaches as well as certification. It either can't be afforded or is too cumbersome to deal with. So where do these coaches go that want to get better? Who want to build a program up the right way? Who want their coaches to be properly trained and certified to whatever levels they have? What about the bi-vocational coaches that can't afford to take off of work to go to the likes of Dorral?

Gyms are routinely dogged out for not having level 5 teams, for not being in Worlds Divisions, not getting a bid, etc. It is not just the kids doing it either. Adults participate as well. We have created the unfortunate mindset that the first time a gym puts together a Level 5 team they must be able to hit the scoresheet tghe first time out like Stingrays, SOT, Cali, or else they should be in the restricted division or in level 4. That to me is pure foolishness. A baby has to grow at the proper rate otherwise it becomes dysfunctional and deformed. Same with gym programs. It takes time to grow a program. We have no patience and no time to let them grow. We all want it all and we want it right now. Patience is no longer seen as a virtue but a vice. The first team I was one of the coaches of that went to Worlds had no doubles on the floor at Worlds. None. The comments we heard in the community and those posted on YouTube, the old boards, etc from the kids from many programs and some adults were beyond painful. If they hurt me as an adult, you know they hurt the kids. Yet that same program has been to Worlds every year since and last year tied for 7th in their division. So the experience of going apparently did them pretty good. Yet we want to deny gyms that ability to have the experience, never knowing what the future of that program will be.

Level 5 has become the holy grail. Any mention of any other division is almost an afterthought, unless it is an issue of excessive crossovers or sandbagging. On this personally I think there should be something more for these levels - even if it is not Worlds so to speak, but the argument is always raised about the costs of flying younger teams all around the country for one event. That parents won't pay that kind of money. And of course that Worlds is only for level 5. So again we put the carrot in front of them that says if you want to be "special" you got to become a level 5.

Then there are some parents that blamed that are pushing for their kids to be promoted faster than they are ready. They are more worried about social promotion of their kids so they can keep up with another child rather than just progress at the safe and proper rate for them. They haven't yet perfected BHS yet they want to be in a Tuck class. Their layout is nothing but a whipped over BHS with no hands yet they are pushing the coaches to get them twisting. They threaten the coaches with leaving if they don't get their way. How can they do that? Because they have already consulted with the other gym and have a placement for their child on the team they want - or so they think. Many times that child will get to practice with the higher team during the summer, only to be dropped down at the end of the summer if they don't fix the skills.

Lastly instead of dealing with the matters that really matter in fixing our rules and governance, the USASF violates its own process to hand down another tone deaf edict that they have to retract and rework. And they still don't get that with the majority while not happy with the rule changes they would adjust, it was the process that ticked everyone off. You say you are doing it for the betterment of the sport - when you only see it as a business - without our input. You offend a majority segment of your client base that you still haven't apologized to, and now you are probably thinking how to keep them from jumping ship.

Rant over. We all need to step away and see what we can do to make it better. Not just for us as individuals but for the industry. If it takes another governing body, so be it. I will continue to make my stands where I can. I will continue to encourage the small gyms and small gym owners to hang in there and don't lose their dream to the power of the conglomerate. I will continue to teach and train athletes patiently knowing I do this because I love working with kids and seeing them successful, whether it is a cartwheel, a front walkover or a double full. To see the smile on their face and to know I positively impacted their life is enough for me to keep at this. I will continue to train the new staff that come to me for help and guidance. I will continue to believe in the power of my dream. To be better today than I was yesterday.

I am in love with you. Seriously. This is probably the best post I have read in the last 2 weeks. It completely covers my thoughts and beliefs. I am now in the painful process of whether or not to not renew my USASF membership (and I know that I will not renew) - I was so offended by both announcements that I know in my heart I can't back this organization at this time.
I am praying that ONE, just ONE big gym will step up to the plate and say NO - this is not how things should happen in our industry. Whether you agree or not with the rules, it really isn't the point. I feel stepped on, talked down to and bullied. Yes, bullied (you know, where bullying is nothing to cheer about!) I am personally and professionally offended, hurting for my teams and all the other gyms who feel like they have no voice. I am saddened and sleepless.
 
An I the only one who doesn't care if my CP ever goes to worlds? (ducking to avoid flying tomatoes)

Not at all. I never cared if mine went or not. The 2nd oldest daughter was on a level 2 team with barely a BHS when I took her on a Father/Daughter trip to Worlds to watch one of our teams compete. However going and seeing it for herself lit a fire under her and she worked her tail off getting up to a Level 5 team a couple of years later. That team quite unexpectedly got a full paid bid one year when the Worlds team in the gym did not. After much discussion that team which was technically only a training 5 and not a Worlds 5 team took the full paid bid and went to Worlds. So she ended up going to Worlds and competing. But I never, ever pushed her or challenged her to get there. It was her thing.

The same will be true of my little ones (9 and 7) Both are currently throwing ROBHS Tucks. If they stick with cheer and make it to Worlds to compete, great. That is just sprinkles on top of the ice cream. If not, so what? They have had fun, worked with some other wonderful athletes, and learned lots of life lessons that they will be able to carry with them into adulthood.
 
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