All-Star More Injuries... Are We To Blame

[Coach Troy]

We need to fix ourselves and our expectations for our CHILDREN.

Honestly, I think that USASF should restrict the rules at least for a couple years while they figure out how to get to the root cause of the problems. I do believe coaches should be certified to the level they are coaching for stunting and tumbling. I have said that a million times. For every one coach at Rays, or CA, or wherever that coaches proper progressions, there are 4 coaches at Suzie's allstars that decided to coach allstars after coaching 2 successful seasons for Pop Warner, and don't have any idea how to get that 7 year old on their J3 team to do a proper full down. "Just spin!". Out of an extension of course. They just need to rein in for a bit. Allstar cheerleading was turning into a pure spectacle in the eyes of the public. Conditioning should be emphasized, as should execution.

For every rule that was implemented yesterday I have heard someone complaining on this very board about the problem that the rules were designed to fix. Janky tumbling, unsafe progressions, fetus flyers, hoochie uniforms....

These new rules do not stop "janky" tumbling nor does it stop young flyers. It punishes the majority of us that do things right.
And hoochie uniforms???? Who made you the moral police??!! Why should your overly prudish views be what we all have to live by??!!

 

[brandon0309]

People shouldn't be able to just open a gym and go about their ways. There needs to be certification & SAFETY with the INSTRUCTORS.
For example. The geographic area South of brandon (brandon, fl wildcats, star athletics etc) and north of ft.meyers (Top Gun) which is a almost 100 miles between the two.. there are SO many gyms, that are run by moms or others that have no clue, certification, expertise of what they are doing. Its just dangerous to watch them tumble..

It sucks that gyms like Stingrays, Cali, CEA, CA, and hundreds of other gyms have to suffer. A lot of gyms do produce advanced and safe tumbling skills..

 

[King]

Not all coach but yes some coaches think they can teach anything and everything but wont spot you or don't know how to spot

I have to say I think proper skills take a long time to learn how to teach. To teach correct bounding passes, for example, how long does a coach need to mentor to learn to teach that? 3 months? A one week certification will not cover it.

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

These new rules do not stop "janky" tumbling nor does it stop young flyers. It punishes the majority of us that do things right.
And hoochie uniforms???? Who made you the moral police??!! Why should your overly prudish views be what we all have to live by??!!

Excuse me? When the Fierce Board, of all places, has to remove a picture of a uniform because it is that inappropriate, I believe that would quantify as "hoochie". There were plenty of people on this board stating quite a few of the uniforms this season were inappropriate. My kid goes to a gym where we are in crops and shorts from tiny through senior, so I would hardly consider myself "prudish". There is a major perception issue out there regarding the image of this sport, and quite frankly if you can't bring yourself to acknowledge that, then you are probably part of the problem.

 

[Philly Pherocious]

I have to say I think proper skills take a long time to learn how to teach. To teach correct bounding passes, for example, how long does a coach need to mentor to learn to teach that? 3 months? A one week certification will not cover it.

Just like the athletes need to learn how to tumble in progressions, coaches need to learn how to coach in progressions. The whole point of the certification process is so that it takes longer than a week for someone to be able to coach level 5 tumbling. Coaches should have to learn in the same order the athletes do. I wouldn't trust someone to teach me a double full if they can't fix a roundoff. To teach technique from the bottom up you need to know technique from the bottom up, this is why the skills gymnasts throw are harder than cheerleaders.

 

[lcheergirl]

If there are a ton more injuries are we as coaches to blame?

Yes. We need to hold gyms accountable for training and proper technique when throwing skills. I think the problem is most gyms don't care if you use proper technique while throwing the skill but if you land it. My daughter came from a gymnastics background where she was taught that if you do not throw the skill correctly you don't advance, this does not happen in cheer. We watch so many kids doing twisting skills without setting properly, and just wonder when they are going to get hurt. There has to be more training and conditioning in cheer. Each gym should have to have a coach that is certified in tumbling. And we need to make the certification process harder. My daughter is 13 and has been throwing doubles from multiple positions since she was 9, with no injuries because she was taught correctly. That is where the problem lies. Add an element like gymnastics that judges on technique, with huge deductions for bad form and it will help also.

 

[King]

Just like the athletes need to learn how to tumble in progressions, coaches need to learn how to coach in progressions. The whole point of the certification process is so that it takes longer than a week for someone to be able to coach level 5 tumbling. Coaches should have to learn in the same order the athletes do. I wouldn't trust someone to teach me a double full if they can't fix a roundoff. To teach technique from the bottom up you need to know technique from the bottom up, this is why the skills gymnasts throw are harder than cheerleaders.

Then true certification to be affective will do this: eliminate 90% of the teams with level 5 teams. I am not against this, but you have to understand what we all are asking.

If we all want a seat at the level 5 table the table has to be easier to sit at. If we want to keep all these high level skills then to get there then Worlds is going to be just the top 50 teams from top programs.

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

Then true certification to be affective will do this: eliminate 90% of the teams with level 5 teams. I am not against this, but you have to understand what we all are asking.

If we all want a seat at the level 5 table the table has to be easier to sit at. If we want to keep all these high level skills then to get there then Worlds is going to be just the top 50 teams from top programs.

I would be all for giving current coaches 2 years from implementation of a certification program to the point that it would be required, as I understand these things take time. After that I would prefer to see a requirement for experience for each level before you can advance. Say after you get credentialed as a level 1 you need 6 months coaching at level 1 before you can test as a level 2, then a year before level 3, and so on. Those aren't real number, just an example.

 

[hopskipandjump]

I own a gym. I don't teach anything beyond level 2 gymnastics. I am not certified to do anything higher. I have no desire to do this as I am old and decrepit. Anything beyond this, they go to someone else more qualified. I don't care where they learn to tumble as long as its taught safely and correctly. This includes the big gym down the street. But I think that is why some gyms not qualified to teach gymnastics still do - they are afraid of losing athletes.

 

[Coach Troy]

I am a father of two girls that have only competed in crop tops. It is my opinion that this is the proper uniform choice for the activity they are participating in. I do not pass judgment on an individual that chooses to wear a full top so why does that person now have the right to make uniform choices for me???
To call someone's choice of unifor that you don't care for "hoochie" is just uncalled for.
These "image" rules are one group of people's opinion and show such arrogance.

 

[lcheergirl]

Then true certification to be affective will do this: eliminate 90% of the teams with level 5 teams. I am not against this, but you have to understand what we all are asking.

If we all want a seat at the level 5 table the table has to be easier to sit at. If we want to keep all these high level skills then to get there then Worlds is going to be just the top 50 teams from top programs.

I think if that what it takes to make sport better until standards are put in place, that is what has to be done for the sport to move forward. There are other ways to incorporate more teams at worlds, but only ones with true skills compete for ultimate prize.

 

[XtremeWpg]

I wrote a Facebook Note about this. I'll post and edited version here. Some parts referenced things that have happened in Manitoba, that no one else will get!!

Last night the USASF came down with a rules mandate that bypassed the USASF rules committee and the 2 year rule cycle. This was done by a Board of Directors, with no vote by the members. The main changes have a huge effect on level 5. Now this isn’t so much an issue in Manitoba…okay, it’s absolutely not an issue here. It eliminates standing fulls and doubles, double fulls are only allowed in running tumbling and must be preceded by a back handspring and consecutive bounding, twisting skills are not allowed. The USASF has cited injuries as the cause for this change.

I have to say, I’m conflicted. I judge, and I have coached and will again. I hate under rotated skills (in person and on YouTube. They make me cringe). But who is at fault for these skills? Is it the athletes, who by all accounts on Level 5 are children under the age of 18? Is it the Event Producers who value ‘maxing out’ and know that the level 5 athletes chasing a Worlds bid are their bread and butter?

I think the answer is no. It’s the fault of the coaches. Not all of them. But certainly those who do not recognize their own coaching limits. Those who’s pursuit of a Worlds bid, that big trophy or making a name for their programs over shadows the absolute need to keep these children safe. It’s more than a need, it’s a straight up requirement. As coaches, we all have parents that trust the safety of their children to us for 2-10 hours a week. Who trust us to know what we’re doing so that their children, while remaining competitive and improving, are above all, safe.

I will be the first to admit that in my time as a coach, I have put some suspicious looking skills on a floor. The libs you know will fall, the pyramids that you know will make the judges cringe, and the janky tumbling just to get those few extra points. I think as a whole we have improved. But I can certainly tell you that sitting at that judges table in the last 2 years, we’re not there yet.

We need to begin to value execution over difficulty. We need to realize the level of the kids we’re working with, and place them in the right level. Having that one girl with a full, does not make you level 5. Having one braced back flip in a pyramid doesn’t make you level 4. We need to accept the level of the kids we’re working with, and not force them into what we think the “glory” levels are. What is wrong with being an amazing, clean Senior 2 or a stunning Junior 1?

It’s with these new rules, and the ending of this season, that I feel that I need to strongly implore the coaches on my Facebook to seriously look at why you coach. Why you level your teams the way you do. It is our duty in this industry to know our rules (even if we disagree with some of them), create and execute routines within those rules, and above all, make sure that our kids are safe and having fun while always pushing forward. Please get involved. There are online communities to help us, there are a multitude of resources within our own province and country. Please educate yourselves on the skills you teach.

Lets be the example of what to do, not what needs to be fixed.

 

[Philly Pherocious]

Then true certification to be affective will do this: eliminate 90% of the teams with level 5 teams. I am not against this, but you have to understand what we all are asking.

If we all want a seat at the level 5 table the table has to be easier to sit at. If we want to keep all these high level skills then to get there then Worlds is going to be just the top 50 teams from top programs.

In my opinion a large chunk of the level 5 teams out there should not be level 5 in the first place. I would be in favor of making it harder to be a level 5 program, would you not?

I understand that it would take time, it doesn't have to be right away. Certification requirements could be bumped up a little more every year or so to get to where we need to be. The big problem I've seen with tumbling are just the basic skills leading up to the ending skills: roundoffs, back handsprings, etc.

The current argument is, do we want to keep the skills or do we want to have a sport with fewer injuries? Do you not think the coaches wanting to keep the skills would be willing to go through a couple weeks of certification a year? If it were to ensure a sport with fewer injuries.

 

[dawgshow]

I am a father of two girls that have only competed in crop tops. It is my opinion that this is the proper uniform choice for the activity they are participating in. I do not pass judgment on an individual that chooses to wear a full top so why does that person now have the right to make uniform choices for me???
To call someone's choice of unifor that you don't care for "hoochie" is just uncalled for.
These "image" rules are one group of people's opinion and show such arrogance.

it's not simply the crop tops, though. I find it sad that someone had to mandate a 2" inseam on shorts, a no-lingerie look, skirts fully covering the hips, spanks under skirts, and skirts being at least 1" longer than bottom of said spanks. Crop tops can look nice. They can also be part of a totally inappropriate--even hoochie--uniform when many questionable parts are put together.

 

[Philly Pherocious]

Placing harsher technique deductions would keep the coaches from putting the "jank" tumbling into a routine, until they have learned proper technique. There would be a drop in tumbling difficulty in routines next year, but it would slowly build back up as more and more athletes learn proper technique... Eventually leading to everything being thrown now, but it would be safer and in my opinion much prettier. Then instead of governing organization A(USASF currently) restricting difficult skills, more difficult skills would be allowed.