All-Star More World Divisions

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

I don’t even really know the best way to put this but:

Coming in top 10 in an existing division is not bad.

Shoot, coming in top 20 in some of these divsions is an accomplishment.

I mean in the largest of the divisions, you’re really accomplishing something just by making it to finals.

Lack of a ring is not a sign that a new division is needed.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

For example:

Take a program like Rain Athletics.

Or Florida Top Dog.

Are these huge programs? No. Are they getting rings? No.

But they are consistently finishing in the top 5 or 10 of their divisions.

I would never look at those teams for example, and say the only way they’re going to do well is by being in their own separate division.

 

[wishfulthinking]

...This was the premise of the extra small divisions in the first place in 2018. Just revert your decision.

We don't need 20+ divisions!!

 

[Knowcheering]

These new divisions are so frustrating, not just because they're diluting the competition even further, but because they're random and feel fake. Why not "D2 Worlds" divisions instead of "Gyms with only 1 Worlds team" divisions? Gyms with 500 athletes can theoretically enter these fake divisions, so what's the point of them?

If my gym has an XS Worlds team and I add a Non-Tumbling Worlds team (so now I have 2 Worlds teams), that means gyms with only 1 Worlds team are so incapable of competing with my gym that they have to hide in a "Limited" division? Make this make sense.

Another example:
Gym X has 300 kids and 1 Worlds team.
Gym Y has 175 kids and 2 XS Worlds teams. "Worlds Team A" is stacked and "Worlds Team B" is what they could put together after forming Team A (some gyms have a "main" Worlds team, some don't).

How does Gym Y having a "Worlds Team B" give them such a competitive advantage over Gym X that Gym X can't bear to compete against Gym Y at Worlds? And the fact that Gym X has the option to choose last minute whether to avoid Gym Y at Worlds and "hide" in a "Limited" division or just enter their regular division feels even more ridiculous. What other sport's World Championships plays these types of games?

MAYBE you could justify some sort of D2 Worlds division (held at Summit). But this random "you can't have more than one Worlds team to enter this division" is absolute madness. It will discourage gyms who are on the verge of forming a second Worlds team from bothering to form one, which is even more sad.

What's also frustrating is that no distinction will be made between these "Limited" divisions and the "regular divisions" aside from the word "Limited". "Limited" used to just mean you had fewer boys on your team. To a casual cheer fan, a "Limited" World title is the same as any other. They get to compete at the same Worlds and receive the same glory. It would be like handicap golfers (not literally handicapped, just amateur) playing in "The Masters" with pros like Tiger Woods and then claiming both the handicap player and the pro won The Masters.

These fake divisions bother me even more than the NT divisions, because at least every gym has the opportunity to enter NT; there are no restrictions. And they mention specifically that they are "Non-Tumbling", so it's easy for anyone to understand "NT" is very different from a "Regular" division. But "Limited" is based mostly on nonsense.

There aren't enough Level 6 teams to justify this constant adding of divisions. What will be next--divisions for teams from low income areas only? Divisions for teams from less populated areas? Divisions for teams that practice only 2 times a week instead of 3? The possibilities for fake divisions are endless. I don't doubt that teams who finished near the bottom of Worlds are frustrated. But that is sports and real life! Some people have to finish toward the bottom otherwise you don't have a full competitive field and it's not a sport. You don't keep inventing divisions to cater to every single team. Frustrating.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

These new divisions are so frustrating, not just because they're diluting the competition even further, but because they're random and feel fake. Why not "D2 Worlds" divisions instead of "Gyms with only 1 Worlds team" divisions? Gyms with 500 athletes can theoretically enter these fake divisions, so what's the point of them?

If my gym has an XS Worlds team and I add a Non-Tumbling Worlds team (so now I have 2 Worlds teams), that means gyms with only 1 Worlds team are so incapable of competing with my gym that they have to hide in a "Limited" division? Make this make sense.

Another example:
Gym X has 300 kids and 1 Worlds team.
Gym Y has 175 kids and 2 XS Worlds teams. "Worlds Team A" is stacked and "Worlds Team B" is what they could put together after forming Team A (some gyms have a "main" Worlds team, some don't).

How does Gym Y having a "Worlds Team B" give them such a competitive advantage over Gym X that Gym X can't bear to compete against Gym Y at Worlds? And the fact that Gym X has the option to choose last minute whether to avoid Gym Y at Worlds and "hide" in a "Limited" division or just enter their regular division feels even more ridiculous. What other sport's "World Championships" plays these types of games?

MAYBE you could justify some sort of D2 Worlds division (held at Summit). But this random "you can't have more than one Worlds team to enter this division" is absolute madness. It will discourage gyms who are on the verge of forming a second Worlds team from bothering to form one, which is even more sad.

What's also frustrating is that no distinction will be made between these "Limited" divisions and the "regular divisions" aside from the world "Limited". "Limited" used to just mean you had fewer boys on your team. To a casual cheer fan, a "Limited" World title is the same as any other. They get to compete at the same Worlds and receive the same glory. It would be like handicap golfers (not literally handicapped, just amateur) playing in "The Masters" with pros like Tiger Woods and then claiming both the handicap player and the pro won The Masters.

These fake divisions bother me even more than the NT divisions, because at least every gym has the opportunity to enter NT; there are no restrictions. And they mention specifically that they are "Non-Tumbling", so it's very easy for anyone to understand "NT" is very different from a "Regular" division. But "Limited" is based mostly on nonsense.

There aren't enough Level 6 teams to justify this constant adding of divisions. What will be next--divisions for teams from low income areas only? Divisions for teams from less populated areas? Divisions for teams that practice only 2 times a week instead of 3? The possibilities for fake divisions are endless. I don't doubt that teams who finished near the bottom of Worlds are frustrated. But that is sports and real life! Some people have to finish toward the bottom otherwise you don't have a full competitive field and it's not a sport. You don't keep inventing divisions to cater to every single team. Frustrating.

This is exactly what I was trying to communicate but you said it so much better.

What exactly is it about being the only worlds team from a gym that makes it more difficult for you to place in any of the existing divisions?

I can see how being a D2 program might. Or only having 100 kids in an entire gym might. Or not having tumbling.

I fail to see how being the only worlds team in your gym makes it more difficult.

I almost want to make a list of teams who have placed in the top 10 or top five or in globe position at worlds but were the only worlds team in their gym.

Because in the smaller team size divisions, aren’t most of the top finishers the only worlds teams in their gym?

Or even in divisions like NT6. Aren’t there several gyms in which the NT team is the only worlds team they have?

 

[Knowcheering]

This is exactly what I was trying to communicate but you said it so much better.

What exactly is it about being the only worlds team from a gym that makes it more difficult for you to place in any of the existing divisions?

I can see how being a D2 program might. Or only having 100 kids in an entire gym might. Or not having tumbling.

I fail to see how being the only worlds team in your gym makes it more difficult.

I almost want to make a list of teams who have placed in the top 10 or top five or in globe position at worlds but were the only worlds team in their gym.

Because in the smaller team size divisions, aren’t most of the top finishers the only worlds teams in their gym?

Or even in divisions like NT6. Aren’t there several gyms in which the NT team is the only worlds team they have?

Exactly. It just seems like an excuse to add more divisions and make the competition easier. Maybe some of the gyms wanting "Limited" divisions only have 1 Worlds team but are above the D2 125-athlete threshold, so they wouldn't benefit from a D2 Worlds division. So they came up with this bogus reason for adding "Limited" divisions instead.

It's interesting that they didn't even just add Limited XS divisions--they also added a Small Coed division. So these fake new divisions aren't just for small gyms struggling to field one XS Worlds team... This feels more like average-sized gyms perhaps wanting to avoid competing against, you know, teams that are worthy of winning Worlds. Why compete against BSB when you can compete against... well... nobody? We're turning this into a participation trophy sport. There were only 21 Small Coed teams at Worlds, absolutely no reason to dilute that division further.

Plenty of cheerleaders used to feel very accomplished getting top 10 or even top 20 in Small Coed at Worlds. But soon there will hardly even be 10 teams entered, so there will be no accomplishment in getting top 10 and all the fixation will be on getting a globe or winning. We've created this monster where everyone thinks they're entitled to winning regardless of ability.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Teams off the top of my head who have done well as the only Worlds team at a location:

GT Fever - has won Worlds
Cheer Express Miss Silver
Top Dog Rain - typically a top 5.
Rain Aqua (they might have another one now but I'm sure they haven't always.)
Isn't Anarchy the only Worlds team out of that Cheerville location? They've won Worlds.
Diamonds All Stars got 2nd in NTCoed6 2021 and I believe that is their only Worlds team.
PCM Fearless is the only Worlds team out of that PCM location, yes?
That time Vizion 20/20 was 3rd.

This is the quickest list ever off the top of my head so don't critique it too hard but you get the idea.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

DOUBLE POSTING BUT I KNEW I WASN'T LOSING MY MARBLES.

THERE IS ALREADY AN XS6COED DIVISION AT D2 SUMMIT.

https://tv.varsity.com/results/7031902-2021-the-d2-summit/29942

If you look under Level 6 results you can see that there was one team in it.

WHY NOT EXPAND THAT AND PUSH D2 GYMS TO ENTER THIS AND CALL IT D2 WORLDS?

 

[CoachTamara]

WHY NOT EXPAND THAT AND PUSH D2 GYMS TO ENTER THIS AND CALL IT D2 WORLDS?

Look, I would love to have like... 3 divisions at Worlds and have an actual fight for a ring. But call this what it is-a business that is trying to cater to anyone and everyone to keep them happy and keep them coming. It's like "earning" a bid to Nationals... One of the parents asked if we should wait to book a hotel until we got the bid and I laughed in her face. Yeah right. They aren't going to NOT take my money, and they don't care if I finish first or last. They have their money.

You also underestimate how much parents have contributed to this. Do they want to say they won D2 Summit or do they want to say they went to Worlds? They care, and they speak with their dollars. If they didn't, they wouldn't be shuttling kids all over this country and sending them to live with other families. If you want more gyms to stay in business and thrive, you need this. You need the parents that can't/won't move their kids to think there is a chance for their Suzie, and pay.

 

[cac4life]

Teams off the top of my head who have done well as the only Worlds team at a location:

GT Fever - has won Worlds
Cheer Express Miss Silver
Top Dog Rain - typically a top 5.
Rain Aqua (they might have another one now but I'm sure they haven't always.)
Isn't Anarchy the only Worlds team out of that Cheerville location? They've won Worlds.
Diamonds All Stars got 2nd in NTCoed6 2021 and I believe that is their only Worlds team.
PCM Fearless is the only Worlds team out of that PCM location, yes?
That time Vizion 20/20 was 3rd.

This is the quickest list ever off the top of my head so don't critique it too hard but you get the idea.

Diamonds allstars has showtime and there extra small all girl team
Rain athletics has downpour and Aqua that I know of off the top of my head
The point still stands though. This is stupid, we need it be taking away divisions, not adding more

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Look, I would love to have like... 3 divisions at Worlds and have an actual fight for a ring. But call this what it is-a business that is trying to cater to anyone and everyone to keep them happy and keep them coming. It's like "earning" a bid to Nationals... One of the parents asked if we should wait to book a hotel until we got the bid and I laughed in her face. Yeah right. They aren't going to NOT take my money, and they don't care if I finish first or last. They have their money.

You also underestimate how much parents have contributed to this. Do they want to say they won D2 Summit or do they want to say they went to Worlds? They care, and they speak with their dollars. If they didn't, they wouldn't be shuttling kids all over this country and sending them to live with other families. If you want more gyms to stay in business and thrive, you need this. You need the parents that can't/won't move their kids to think there is a chance for their Suzie, and pay.

Yes!

I am one of the organizers of Homecoming at the school where I work. There has always been a court at each grade (4 pairs) and the highest voted in each grade level are a title. Freshman prince/princess, sophomore, junior, and your King and Queen are seniors.

My general idea is that you should be OK with just being on court. Yeah you might not be voted freshman prince or princess but hate being voted on court is cool too. You get to be in the parade still, you’re recognized at the game, etc.

Every few years or so, a parent of a court member will ask me why doesn’t court get crowns? Or why can’t the entire court be named freshman princesses? These folks are more than willing to pay for said crowns if they think it is a financial issue, too.

Disclaimer: I’m not the biggest fan of these sorts of things anyhow and almost wish we could just cancel them, but it is a similar example of people being more than willing to pay if it means their child will be recognized in a different manner. Or in the manner that they want their child to be recognized.

 

[UCFKnights07]

i mean i get it from a small gyms prospective, hence why i was a fan when they originally came out with the xsmall divisions. And i get the frustration of small gym owners being over run by big gyms who wanted in, just so they could add another trophy to the wall. I think for small gyms its a much different goal, making it to finals, possibly placing top 3 or 5.
i cheered for a small gym and that was always our goals, winning yes is great, but when your at a disadvantage just getting into finals or placing top 3 is a big deal. Big gyms complaining about 3 divisions, that they couldnt compete in, when there are 20 others ones, i do not or wont ever be able to understand.

but also why not just turn the xsmall divisions back into its original form.....

 

[DonnaM]

So, we slice the 6/7 pie into ever smaller slices. It's not going to make there magically be more 6/7 level kids.

Honestly, wouldn't it make more sense to add lower open level teams so that small gyms that may not have a worlds team can offer, say, an open 3/4 for kids who don't make a college team, or even an open 1 or 2 for cheer parents who think it might be fun to try?

 

[luv2cheer92]

For example:

Take a program like Rain Athletics.

Or Florida Top Dog.

Are these huge programs? No. Are they getting rings? No.

But they are consistently finishing in the top 5 or 10 of their divisions.

I would never look at those teams for example, and say the only way they’re going to do well is by being in their own separate division.

Rain Athletics had 3 Worlds teams last year. 2 the year before that.

 

[luv2cheer92]

I have so many issues with this, but one of the biggest ones is reusing a division name that used to exist with a totally different meaning. I know its been almost 10 years since those divisions existed, but it still annoys me.