All-Star No More 'nationals'

[SmileyRyleigh]

Why can't each competition brand have competitions that you have to QUALIFY to go to nationals? I can't even count how many t-shirts, sweatshirts, backpacks, banners, and medals that I have that say "national champion" or "nationals" when we didn't even have to qualify in any event to get there..

 

[King]

Why can't each competition brand have competitions that you have to QUALIFY to go to nationals? I can't even count how many t-shirts, sweatshirts, backpacks, banners, and medals that I have that say "national champion" or "nationals" when we didn't even have to qualify in any event to get there..

Because not all gyms have easy cheap access to qualifiers. Their one travel might be to that big nationals.


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[KDCheerMom]

ok - new to this discussion and to cheer in general as this is our first year. But where does US Finals fit in? We just won a paid bid. Now I did look up how people can go with lower placements and partial payments - but you still have to earn that placement. Should a comp where you have to earn a bid to be there be in this discussion? Just asking.

 

[newcheerdad]

If just those 4 have it people will complain. Just grand championship.


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You could have championships, grand championships, super grand championships, super grand major championships, etc. You have at have at least three words before "championship" for the win to be prestigious.

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[WinstonsGirl]

when i came from gymnastics to cheer i was confused by how many 'provincial championships' (similar to state but im from CANADA :D) and national championships. In gymnastics there was one competition for provincials (which you had to qualify for) - and when you placed at that determined your rank in the Province, and then national champions (first had to qualify to compete) and then when compete at nationals that is the final national placement until the following year - it made it easy to recognize the best (kindof like recognizing world champions :) )

I like the idea of it! :)

ETA: and those championships were legit championships where the majority of eligible athletes competed unless there was a reason they couldn't (injury, finance, etc.)

Agree. We went to PCA College/Uni/Open Canadian Nationals one year (in Dec., at the beginning of the season no less). People at home said "Wow!! You're going to Nationals. So you're the best in the Province, right??" Nope. That was our season's first competition. It doesn't seem to be as bad up here, but every competition I seem to hear of in the States is a National Championships. It takes something special away from the title if everyone and their dog has it.

As much as the bids to World's give me an ulcer in hoping to qualify, I like that it ensures only the top teams here are going, generally. It makes the whole experience that more important as you've had to work to get there

 

[cheermommaRN]

I like the idea of one Nationals event per EP but to only have UCA, NCA, Cheersport, and Jamfest be the ONLY Nationals...not so much. I think it's easy when you have access to these events or to gyms that frequent them but not all small gyms can travel to these events. Even if they get the money together to go, to actually be competitive (even in small gym) at an event like NCA is a tall order.
The best example I can give you is Arizona...it is a cheerleading vacuum. Only two gyms travel to NCA and those are Power and Desert Storm, and they usually only bring their level 5's. Everyone else goes to SpiritFest or America's Best in California. Those gyms should have the opportunity to compete and win a Nationals banner, even if it's not in what we all would consider a "real" Nationals, it's real to those kids competing for it.

 

[ASCheerMan]

Instead of limiting it by brand--because I've seen what issues that causes--What if you defined a Nationals based on certain criteria, such as:
A) how many teams competed
B) how many states were represented
C) some combination of the above

'States represented' might be disproportionately unfair to regions like California and Texas. But size of event at least makes it more likely that you beat other teams.

I'm not sure it makes sense to call an event a nationals just because it's important to those teams that don't go to any of the larger events.

The event should be defined a Nationals based on criteria about that event, not based on whether or not the customer has a desire to win a 'National' title.

 

[kristenthegreat]

Instead of limiting it by brand--because I've seen what issues that causes--What if you defined a Nationals based on certain criteria, such as:
A) how many teams competed
B) how many states were represented
C) some combination of the above

'States represented' might be disproportionately unfair to regions like California and Texas. But size of event at least makes it more likely that you beat other teams.

I'm not sure it makes sense to call an event a nationals just because it's important to those teams that don't go to any of the larger events.

The event should be defined a Nationals based on criteria about that event, not based on whether or not the customer has a desire to win a 'National' title.

Well, there are 50 states. I think every one has an allstar cheer team (I'd say about 4 or 5 don't max). Now, what if it was an either/or:

You must have 20+ states represented OR have over X amount of teams from X number of different gyms (because you get Cali, ACE or CEA in one comp and there goes half the teams :p)? It would require the numbers of teams from last year, and depending on your numbers will determine if you can be called a national championship for the following year.

 

[King]

Instead of limiting it by brand--because I've seen what issues that causes--What if you defined a Nationals based on certain criteria, such as:
A) how many teams competed
B) how many states were represented
C) some combination of the above

'States represented' might be disproportionately unfair to regions like California and Texas. But size of event at least makes it more likely that you beat other teams.

I'm not sure it makes sense to call an event a nationals just because it's important to those teams that don't go to any of the larger events.

The event should be defined a Nationals based on criteria about that event, not based on whether or not the customer has a desire to win a 'National' title.

I can get behind that more than just a free for all.

 

[12stepCheermom]

Instead of limiting it by brand--because I've seen what issues that causes--What if you defined a Nationals based on certain criteria, such as:
A) how many teams competed
B) how many states were represented
C) some combination of the above

'States represented' might be disproportionately unfair to regions like California and Texas. But size of event at least makes it more likely that you beat other teams.

I'm not sure it makes sense to call an event a nationals just because it's important to those teams that don't go to any of the larger events.

The event should be defined a Nationals based on criteria about that event, not based on whether or not the customer has a desire to win a 'National' title.

I'd be interested to apply that standard to this years competitions and see how many "nationals" there actually were. I think it's safe to assume Indy, CHEERSPORT and NCA but I wonder how many/if any others would qualify.

 

[TheTalkedAboutMinor]

Can we say Ntls?

 

[TheTalkedAboutMinor]

Double post, but I know National Champions isn't such a big deal in the cheer world, so I'd always use it around friends just so I seem like a big deal.

 

[njallday]

I'd be interested to apply that standard to this years competitions and see how many "nationals" there actually were. I think it's safe to assume Indy, CHEERSPORT and NCA but I wonder how many/if any others would qualify.

i'm not even sure UCA would qualify. compared to those 3, their numbers seem much lower. Though, they are "internationals" not nationals and they do (normally) have international representation.

 

[AScheer]

I like the idea of one Nationals event per EP but to only have UCA, NCA, Cheersport, and Jamfest be the ONLY Nationals...not so much. I think it's easy when you have access to these events or to gyms that frequent them but not all small gyms can travel to these events. Even if they get the money together to go, to actually be competitive (even in small gym) at an event like NCA is a tall order.
The best example I can give you is Arizona...it is a cheerleading vacuum. Only two gyms travel to NCA and those are Power and Desert Storm, and they usually only bring their level 5's. Everyone else goes to SpiritFest or America's Best in California. Those gyms should have the opportunity to compete and win a Nationals banner, even if it's not in what we all would consider a "real" Nationals, it's real to those kids competing for it.

Now you're back to everyone gets to win a nationals which is how we got to where we are today. You can't have it both ways. Either nationals is exclusive and special or its what we have now. Thats one of the things I like about HS cheer. For the most part people only consider UCA in Orlando and NCA in Dallas the true nationals. Same can be said for college. People really only consider UCA in Orlando or NCA in Daytona the nationals. Neither are necessarily convenient for everyone. Neither are cheap and you have to qualify for all of them. There are only so many divisions. Its not uncommon to have upwards of 40 teams in a division. Thats what makes winning it so special and such a big deal. People are excited to make finals, people are excited to get top 10 or top 20 in the big divisions. Not everyone is a winner and there is nothing unfair about that. Its an expensive commitment for teams to make it to these, but there is also only 1 a season, the rest of the time you do regional events that don't cost that much. If you don't have a different huge expensive nationals every other week like we currently have in allstars then the cost commitment going to one nationals a year isn't any worse then what you spend now.

I think those 4 were mentioned earlier because those are the 4 that people currently consider prestigious. Winning UCA NCA Cheerpsort or Jamfest Supers means something in this industry. I agree I don't necessarily like limiting it to only those four - especially since 3 of them are varsity owned - but I don't have any ideas on ways to open it up to new companies.

 

[GreatWhite92]

I disagree. I completely see cheersport as a nationals championship. My cheersport jacket is one of my most prized possessions. I have so many Jamfest "national champion" jackets that I gave most of them away.

Eta: referring to the comment above about uca and Nca being the only comps people consider nationals. :)