All-Star Purpose Of Safety Certification For Coaches

[imrichhowboutu]

I have a question that is sparked from the topic yesterday. I'd like to stay away from specific instances and talk about the fundamentals here.

What is the purpose of having Safety Certifications for all coaches and requiring them to have it to be able to go to competitions? I would think USASF does this so coaches can practice the safety guidelines set forth by the USASF. Wouldn't they want these guidelines to be practiced at the gym/in practice not just at competitions?

Do you think there should be ramifications for coaches who knowingly have their athletes perform skills that are deemed illegal by the guidelines?

 

[King]

I have a question that is sparked from the topic yesterday. I'd like to stay away from specific instances and talk about the fundamentals here.

What is the purpose of having Safety Certifications for all coaches and requiring them to have it to be able to go to competitions? I would think USASF does this so coaches can practice the safety guidelines set forth by the USASF. Wouldn't they want these guidelines to be practiced at the gym/in practice not just at competitions?

Do you think there should be ramifications for coaches who knowingly have their athletes perform skills that are deemed illegal by the guidelines?

That is a hard road. There are plenty of skills that are grey and can be ruled one way or the other. Do you punish people flirting with the grey? Maybe you just punish those outright violations... but how do you decide which violations are more egregious than others?

And then what happens when your level 3 team starts having people land their stand backs near the end of the year and does those while practicing just to improve and get better for next year?

I think the current setup of punishment [ that your team will get a penalty and probably lose ] is a strong enough motivator to trickle down and the only way to enforce.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

What about those that are blatant violations to a rule with no grey area? Les has a system in place to know who is breaking rules consistently at competition.

Obviously each level will begin to progress higher as the season goes on. But then you have level 5. There is a certain ceiling of what you can do to up the ante so to speak.

 

[tumbleyoda]

So do we go from simply policing the competitions for illegal skills, and training coach's properly to each member gym in every practice setting to make sure nothing illegal or in the grey area is being attempted? That to me is a massive overreach of what the Certification's intentions are. You could then have "Suzie's" mom reporting stuff because she is mad about whatever she chooses to be mad about that day, a visiting parent who is actually spying for another gym to turn in a Restricted 5 team for doing Unrestricted skills, FB stalking of personal and practice videos and them being turned in, etc.

I know what you are getting at but it seems like it would be an avalanche of disaster if it extended that way. I would want to seem them get it right with training and at every competition, no matter what team/program is performing and regardless if it is a local comp or a major National or Worlds. Because in reality that was the issue for many gyms - that some gyms could seemingly always get away with the illegalities at competitions while other gyms were nailed.

If it is a true grey area, it should be sent in by the coach attempting the skill in the grey area evaluated, determined and then reported to the entire membership as to the ruling. That does not put any program on blast. It keeps everyone abiding by the same rules.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

I'm not necessarily talking of a level 4 team that does a level 5 stunt. or a level 2 athlete that does level 3 tumbling.

Let's say 3 competitions in a row Suzy Allstars has only 2 catchers for a flipping/twisting braced inversion in a level 5 pyramid. That is clearly illegal by any means of the rules. They got violations 3 weeks in a row at a smaller regional competition in nov/dec. Is that ok? Just getting the point deduction is just hurting the kids more, when in reality a coach is putting them in danger.

 

[tumbleyoda]

I'm not necessarily talking of a level 4 team that does a level 5 stunt. or a level 2 athlete that does level 3 tumbling.

Let's say 3 competitions in a row Suzy Allstars has only 2 catchers for a flipping/twisting braced inversion in a level 5 pyramid. That is clearly illegal by any means of the rules. They got violations 3 weeks in a row at a smaller regional competition in nov/dec. Is that ok? Just getting the point deduction is just hurting the kids more, when in reality a coach is putting them in danger.

That is not ok. But is there communication enough - or database enough - to document that Suzy Allstars has been hit 3 weeks in a row and some action should be taken beyond what has been taken to the the coach? And does the smaller regional actually catch it? or are they so concerned for their future $$$ that they ignore it, or give them a warning instead? Not trying to be difficult, just going through some scenarios that could play out.

 

[wcdad]

That is a hard road. There are plenty of skills that are grey and can be ruled one way or the other. Do you punish people flirting with the grey? Maybe you just punish those outright violations... but how do you decide which violations are more egregious than others?

And then what happens when your level 3 team starts having people land their stand backs near the end of the year and does those while practicing just to improve and get better for next year?

I think the current setup of punishment [ that your team will get a penalty and probably lose ] is a strong enough motivator to trickle down and the only way to enforce.

King I hear you but to your point that you will loose I assume you are talking when you are competing, what about the other days spent in the Gym and not competing, and the chance that what you will loose is the athlete / child when something illegal is done and goes wrong? Competing is only a very small amount of time. Most injuries and violations will happen in the Gym and not at an event as that is where 98% of the time is spent. If there are a set of rules that identify what is legal and what is not, than they should be followed. It is the responsibility of the Coach, Director, Owner, and the USASF to see to it they are.

I know that a stop sign means stop. It is a rule, a law. I as a driver know I need to come to a complete stop before proceeding. If I choose to not follow that rule than I know there can be consciences for my action. I can get a fine; I can even run the greater risk of injury to my self and others.

To Rich's point, what is the purpose of having Safety Certifications for all coaches? As a parent who is still very much involved in the Sport as my daughter still is an All-star Cheerleader, I am asking this question. It is my understanding that the USASF is marketing there logo as a way for, parents, athletes, consumers, clients, however you want to word it a sign that this program or gym and coach follow a set of rules and guide lines that promote safety. They are telling you to look for the USASF Logo before you choose a gym. I as a parent don’t think it is just for compations but feel it should be ALL the time, every time my child steps foot into a USASF Gym. Parents who are the gyms customers are putting what can now be perceived as blind faith in the USASF Logo and what it really means.

It seems that the issue at hand is the USASF and its Certifications is a nice idea but is meaningless and powerless at this point to deal with issues they claim to in place for. Until there are sanctions the purpose of having Safety Certifications for all coaches is some what meaningless.

I work for a company that any accident or injury has to be documented and is reviewed no mater the severity. When a violation of company policy and rules are found to be a cause, than discipline is administered. Whether it is a write up, time off, or termination is decided by what is call progressive discipline. Should a gym have to submit an accident reports to the USASF for review to see if there was any violations of the rules? After all each of the athletes that are a USASF Cheerleader has catastrophic insurance from USASF. I would think the underwriter of the policy would want this.

This is a topic that is long over due and I beg that it not be side tracked and as Rich said keep it to the fundamentals

 

[REA Dad]

Rich wouldn't your idea, if enforced fairly, eliminate progression?

 

[yojaehs]

I'm not necessarily talking of a level 4 team that does a level 5 stunt. or a level 2 athlete that does level 3 tumbling.

Let's say 3 competitions in a row Suzy Allstars has only 2 catchers for a flipping/twisting braced inversion in a level 5 pyramid. That is clearly illegal by any means of the rules. They got violations 3 weeks in a row at a smaller regional competition in nov/dec. Is that ok? Just getting the point deduction is just hurting the kids more, when in reality a coach is putting them in danger.

I hear you and NO I do not think that that is ok, however, are you saying that you can't teach level 6 skills to someone getting ready to go to college? The first thing that popped in my head was rewinds, clearly illegal for anyone under the age of 17 to compete, under level 6 to compete. But I think that it is crucial to girls and guys learning if they want to compete for those top spots at Universities. I think it would be WAY too hard to police this kind of thing. However I do think the certification process is boom boom.

 

[wcdad]

Rich wouldn't your idea, if enforced fairly, eliminate progression?

I don’t think so... If you are a LVL 2 athlete you should not be allowed to work LVL 5 skills. But working a skill one level up or down from your certification would allow progression.

 

[wcdad]

I hear you and NO I do not think that that is ok, however, are you saying that you can't teach level 6 skills to someone getting ready to go to college? The first thing that popped in my head was rewinds, clearly illegal for anyone under the age of 17 to compete, under level 6 to compete. But I think that it is crucial to girls and guys learning if they want to compete for those top spots at Universities. I think it would be WAY too hard to police this kind of thing. However I do think the certification process is boom boom.

If the coach is not certified in Level 6 skills they shoould not be teaching them. Further you should not be working with a Level 3 athleate teaching them level 6 skill. IMO

 

[yojaehs]

If the coach is not certified in Level 6 skills they shoould not be teaching them. Further you should not be working with a Level 3 athleate teaching them level 6 skill. IMO

I'm not saying that I don't see your point, however, if I'm certified don't I reserve the right to make the decision on who I teach what to? There may be a Senior that doesn't tumble extremely well that wants to cheer at college. If I want to teach her a rewind, then I'm gonna do it. Now I know that I'm stating the exception to the rule, but I don't think anyone should be able to tell me what I can and can't teach if I want to. I've had level 4 athletes go on to cheer in college, do they not have the right to come to stunt class and learn? Yes, they do. Dangerous coaches are all over the country and they will continue to be until parents do better research. I see where this is going and I am all for requiring more education for coaches, but handcuffing ALL coaches also can handcuff the good coaches that aren't stupid. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Deleted member 15]

If the coach is not certified in Level 6 skills they shoould not be teaching them. Further you should not be working with a Level 3 athleate teaching them level 6 skill. IMO

Jomo Thompson, head coach at the University of Kentucky, isn't credentialed to Level 6. Would you let him teach them to your kid(s)?

 

[gymrat12]

I don’t think so... If you are a LVL 2 athlete you should not be allowed to work LVL 5 skills. But working a skill one level up or down from your certification would allow progression.

If it's going to be that broad... say I have a level 2 tumbler but she excels at flying. Should she only be allowed to work level 2/3 skills that she has already perfected at her stunt class? Just because she's technically labeled "level 2"

 

[ztaprincess]

If it's going to be that broad... say I have a level 2 tumbler but she excels at flying. Should she only be allowed to work level 2/3 skills that she has already perfected at her stunt class? Just because she's technically labeled "level 2"

If she was placed on say a level 5 team but only has level 2 tumbling as long as she has perfected the lower level stunting and doesn't attempt to do fulls or double fulls until the lower tumbling is achieved then I don't see the problem in that.