All-Star Small Gym Division

[CatsCoach113]

Okay, so just want some thoughts on the small gym division. First let me start by saying if you are a true SMALL gym, who struggles against the larger more competitive gyms then I think you absolutely should be in the small gym division!! However when teams enter into the small gym division to take the easy way out and an easy win I think it's ridiculous!! To many times I have seem teams enter into this when the have NO business being in it, and I just don't understand it. Anyone else's thoughts?!?

 

[aggie1983]

I may be misunderstanding your question, but unless a gym is fraudulently claiming to be small gym when they are not, what else would determine that a gym has no business being in the small gym division?

 

[Bcheercoach]

Yeah there's no way a gym can just "decide to enter the small gym division". That's illegal.

 

[CatsCoach113]

I guess I worded that wrong. Sm. Gym divisions are IMO always smaller then the not sm. gym divisions. I guess I'm saying why would a good small gym enter In the small gym division just to go against less teams & have more of a chance of winning. IMO I like going against more teams.

 

[allstarLoVEcheer]

So if you're a small gym (but you are really good) then you should not be in the small gym division, but if you are an okay small gym then it's fine to be in that division? I don't think they can control if they are not as large as other gyms and are still an amazing team.

 

[NEliteSteven]

Small Gym Sr 3 was the biggest division at UCA nationals. FYI.

 

[CatsCoach113]

Small Gym Sr 3 was the biggest division at UCA nationals. FYI.

I didn't know that. I'm just going off of competitions we attend, and I didn't say all competitions.. Just saying I like going against as many teams as possible and competition companies are finding so many ways to keep making divisions smaller and smaller. Even when there is like 24 teams in one division they split them. Why not have more conpetition?!?

And I know teams that enter those divisions to go against less teams - not saying its an easier division cause going by what you said that Division (cuz its not) just a smaller one, usually.

 

[NJ Coach]

So if you're a small gym (but you are really good) then you should not be in the small gym division, but if you are an okay small gym then it's fine to be in that division? I don't think they can control if they are not as large as other gyms and are still an amazing team.

Obviously, they can't help how many kids they have in their program but, I have seen teams hide in the Small Gym divisions. I understand why the division was created, but I hate it personally.

 

[BlueCat]

Under the current system, I don't think that teams should have a choice if teams are split into large/small gym divisions.

That being said, I would implement a different system for splitting gyms. I would have two classifications that are self-selected by the gym at the beginning of each season. (need better names, but I'll use "World League" and "National League" for demonstration purposes.)

World League (the "upper" level) gyms are eligible for Worlds bids. "National League" gyms are not. The idea would be that most large gyms would pick World League for themselves. Most small gyms would not (but would have the option to if they chose.) Default would be National. (You are defined as "national" unless you declare with USASF by a certain date.)

If the EPs chose, they may split divisions into "World" and "National" if and only if there are 7 or more teams total AND the resulting split would leave at least 2 teams in each division.

Gyms would NOT be able to change "leagues" mid-season. All of a program's teams compete in the same league.

PROS:
gyms get to pick their own league/classification each year.
strong small gyms (or weak large gyms) can choose to compete against similarly competitive teams
forced declaration by a certain date helps ensure that Worlds gyms are registered with USASF
No need to define (or attempt to verify) enrollment/size
Fairly simple for EPs to administer.

CONS:
Unorganized gyms could find themselves ineligible for Worlds
We need different names for the "leagues" or divisions.

 

[Bcheercoach]

A lot of the competitions our small gym attends do not even split between small and large (except NCA). So we're going against the most/best teams all season except for our nationals, which I feel is fair. It keeps us working our hardest even though we are a small gym.

 

[tumbleyoda]

Under the current system, I don't think that teams should have a choice if teams are split into large/small gym divisions.

That being said, I would implement a different system for splitting gyms. I would have two classifications that are self-selected by the gym at the beginning of each season. (need better names, but I'll use "World League" and "National League" for demonstration purposes.)

World League (the "upper" level) gyms are eligible for Worlds bids. "National League" gyms are not. The idea would be that most large gyms would pick World League for themselves. Most small gyms would not (but would have the option to if they chose.) Default would be National. (You are defined as "national" unless you declare with USASF by a certain date.)

If the EPs chose, they may split divisions into "World" and "National" if and only if there are 7 or more teams total AND the resulting split would leave at least 2 teams in each division.

Gyms would NOT be able to change "leagues" mid-season. All of a program's teams compete in the same league.

PROS:
gyms get to pick their own league/classification each year.
strong small gyms (or weak large gyms) can choose to compete against similarly competitive teams
forced declaration by a certain date helps ensure that Worlds gyms are registered with USASF
No need to define (or attempt to verify) enrollment/size
Fairly simple for EPs to administer.

CONS:
Unorganized gyms could find themselves ineligible for Worlds
We need different names for the "leagues" or divisions.

This is along the lines of the concept we were discussing last year (or the year before) about a type of D1 and D2 arrangement. This allows gyms to choose where they need to be based on their goals and where they are.

Now question - what about gyms with multiple locations? Could one location be a "Worlds" and the other a "National?" This was one of the issues we ran into a roadblock before, esp when the gyms crossover between locations.

 

[gymcatmomx2]

Under the current system, I don't think that teams should have a choice if teams are split into large/small gym divisions.

That being said, I would implement a different system for splitting gyms. I would have two classifications that are self-selected by the gym at the beginning of each season. (need better names, but I'll use "World League" and "National League" for demonstration purposes.)

World League (the "upper" level) gyms are eligible for Worlds bids. "National League" gyms are not. The idea would be that most large gyms would pick World League for themselves. Most small gyms would not (but would have the option to if they chose.) Default would be National. (You are defined as "national" unless you declare with USASF by a certain date.)

If the EPs chose, they may split divisions into "World" and "National" if and only if there are 7 or more teams total AND the resulting split would leave at least 2 teams in each division.

Gyms would NOT be able to change "leagues" mid-season. All of a program's teams compete in the same league.

PROS:
gyms get to pick their own league/classification each year.
strong small gyms (or weak large gyms) can choose to compete against similarly competitive teams
forced declaration by a certain date helps ensure that Worlds gyms are registered with USASF
No need to define (or attempt to verify) enrollment/size
Fairly simple for EPs to administer.

CONS:
Unorganized gyms could find themselves ineligible for Worlds
We need different names for the "leagues" or divisions.

In my opinion, it would be difficult for a small gym to "declare" what division they want to be in until they get their teams and choreography set and have a few competitions under their belt to know whether they should compete against the stronger gyms. And what happens if they have really good level 1 and 2 teams but their level 3 and 4 teams are not that stong? Would they be able to choose which teams would be in which division? I just don't think small gyms with less than 75 athletes can compete against the large gyms, for the most part. It would be like a Class 2A football team playing against a Class 5A football team. Just food for thought.

 

[BlueCat]

In my opinion, it would be difficult for a small gym to "declare" what division they want to be in until they get their teams and choreography set and have a few competitions under their belt to know whether they should compete against the stronger gyms. And what happens if they have really good level 1 and 2 teams but their level 3 and 4 teams are not that stong? Would they be able to choose which teams would be in which division? I just don't think small gyms with less than 75 athletes can compete against the large gyms, for the most part. It would be like a Class 2A football team playing against a Class 5A football team. Just food for thought.

I don't think that the classification would even come up in anything other than the largest events. (The ones where there would be enough teams in each division to warrant a split.)

Small gyms with less than 75 athletes would likely stay at the "national" level. This idea gives each gym the opportunity to decide their own classification based on their own needs. The requirement that your gym be a "World" category program to be eligible for Worlds would keep powerful gyms from sandbagging themselves into the "national" category.

The current system basically has the perverse incentive for small gyms to keep their enrollment numbers low so that they can be shielded from the "big bad evil gyms". You can't have 76 athletes in your program without having to compete against the Top Guns of the world. This system would fix that issue. Small gyms could grow and decide on their own when they want to dip their feet into the shark-infested (or stingray-infested) waters.