All-Star The Future Of Stunting

[drewpate]

PS.... I'm disappointed, I was expecting a video of some super elite stunt or young stunt group doing amazing things by the title of the thread :(

 

[Rudags]

If you feel strongly against it, let the you attend know how you feel (which I'm sure you have no problem doing Rudags lol)

I can never attend those USASF meetings because of choreography and camps in the summer. Maybe one day.

 

[drewpate]

Meant to say the EP you attend.. Autocorrect. But I hope you can finally make it one day.

 

[ASCheerMan]

The rules proposals that we were shown at the USASF actually expand stunting in level 4 and 5. These are the ones we will get to vote on and decide (as they've already been vetted by the rules committee to avoid a fiasco like the last rules cycle) I believe we were shown 5, but the 3 that stick out are
allowing all releases to the top in level 4 except for high to high releases.
Free flipping mounts into stunts in level 5 (didn't go over all the restrictions but it would have to start from a stand and land at shoulder level or below)
Tumbling into stunts level 5(think top guns running tumbling but without having the boys lay on the ground)

One of the others had to do with med coed numbers, and I can't remember the next one.

As far as capping skills (so that for instance you only score the first 3 elites of a stunt even if you do 70 elite variations) is already done in jumps and baskets on varsity, with the intention of adding more categories if those go well (I orrery me if I'm wrong ASCheerMan )
If you feel strongly against it, let the you attend know how you feel (which I'm sure you have no problem doing Rudags lol)

You are correct. The judges are going to attempt to implement the capping philosophy in all of the skill categories but it will be specifically enforced in 'Tosses' and 'Jumps.' In essence, once a team is placed in the 'HIGH' subrange, performing more skills (i.e. more elite building skills, 17 jumps, 26 8 counts of pyramid transitions)won't positively affect your Difficulty score.

And to clarify your rule questions, I THINK what is up for vote is allowing Level 4 to perform a LOW to HIGH tick tock, but to still restrict them from competing HIGH to HIGH tick tocks.

 

[ASCheerMan]

I heard that doubles were to be gone based on the no doubles in college scenario and that the stunts would be limited. Not by rule, but making only 3 criteria count and any extra would not increase the score thus limiting risk taking for no reward. It is kind of backhanded so to speak, but, you can do it but it will not help your score and will kill you in execution if you mess up.

I hope what I heard is all rumor or speculation, but I do trust my sources.

I would NOT trust your sources as I've only been privy to one convo where an individual used the 'what if we outlawed doubles' scenario as a method to making a point. It has never legitimately been on the table for discussion. And I believe the USASF learned from this past Spring's debacle that any scandalous rule changes moving forward need to go through the preferred process (as the process it went through was officially recognized by the USASF, but it obviously wasn't the preferred).

In addition, I've never, ever heard anyone mention adding Stunting rules that further limits what is allowed at each level. Never.

On behalf of Varsity, we have started capping skills - but not capping the difficulty level of the skills, only capping how many skills will count towards your difficulty score. This was done in response to the coach's complaint that Event Producers were making it too difficult on these athletes. The truth is EP's aren't demanding more out of team's. Rather, teams are trying to outdo their biggest competitiion by one-upping them. So if one team performs a 6 8ct pyramid, another team assumes that, in order to beat their rivals in Pyramids, their pyramid section needs to be 8 8cts long, when nowhere in the rubric did we call for that.

What Varisty is proposing is: If the judges are only going to consider 3 elite transitions when developing your Stunts Difficulty score, then Coaches won't feel the need to add a 4th elite skill in hopes that it'll give them the edge over another team's score. The effect should be:
- make Coaches cease on the arms race of doing more than the competition just for the sake of doing more
- make routines safer as it's that 4th skill that is likely to be unsafe and create a chance of injury
- make your 3 elite skills that you choose more difficult and more safe
- give coaches extra 8 cts strategically to use on whatever portion of the routine deserve to featured or portion of the routine that needs additional focus

 

[King]

I would NOT trust your sources as I've only been privy to one convo where an individual used the 'what if we outlawed doubles' scenario as a method to making a point. It has never legitimately been on the table for discussion. And I believe the USASF learned from this past Spring's debacle that any scandalous rule changes moving forward need to go through the preferred process (as the process it went through was officially recognized by the USASF, but it obviously wasn't the preferred).

In addition, I've never, ever heard anyone mention adding Stunting rules that further limits what is allowed at each level. Never.

On behalf of Varsity, we have started capping skills - but not capping the difficulty level of the skills, only capping how many skills will count towards your difficulty score. This was done in response to the coach's complaint that Event Producers were making it too difficult on these athletes. The truth is EP's aren't demanding more out of team's. Rather, teams are trying to outdo their biggest competitiion by one-upping them. So if one team performs a 6 8ct pyramid, another team assumes that, in order to beat their rivals in Pyramids, their pyramid section needs to be 8 8cts long, when nowhere in the rubric did we call for that.

What Varisty is proposing is: If the judges are only going to consider 3 elite transitions when developing your Stunts Difficulty score, then Coaches won't feel the need to add a 4th elite skill in hopes that it'll give them the edge over another team's score. The effect should be:
- make Coaches cease on the arms race of doing more than the competition just for the sake of doing more
- make routines safer as it's that 4th skill that is likely to be unsafe and create a chance of injury
- make your 3 elite skills that you choose more difficult and more safe
- give coaches extra 8 cts strategically to use on whatever portion of the routine deserve to featured or portion of the routine that needs additional focus

I think this makes perfect sense. Quality over quantity.

 

[ASCheerMan]

It doesn't take a rule change to limit stunting, Varsity has already decided they do not want to see elite coed stunts. In order to qualify as an elite stunt in small coed, a division that can only have 4 males, you have to put up 6 single based one leg stunts. In medium it's 10 stunts with 6 boys. I would venture to guess that not a single team in the country will be able to make this happen this season.

Doug (and I assume this is Doug based on the content of this posting),
I know this seems to you like we are 'taking away' the motivation to coed stunt with our new system, but if you compare it to the system we had in place last year and for the past 3 seasons, we've actually created more opportunity that didn't exist before--arguably not enough opportunity, but definitely more than last year's system.

And you may think it's not worth it to coed stunt at all, but I dare you to go up against another team with a stunt sequence that is identical in every way, with the exception of your team did a Toss to chair and the other team did a toss to hands, lib. I bet you $$ that the team with toss to hands lib is going to outscore you in Stunt Difficulty.

 

[Rudags]

I would NOT trust your sources as I've only been privy to one convo where an individual used the 'what if we outlawed doubles' scenario as a method to making a point. It has never legitimately been on the table for discussion. And I believe the USASF learned from this past Spring's debacle that any scandalous rule changes moving forward need to go through the preferred process (as the process it went through was officially recognized by the USASF, but it obviously wasn't the preferred).

In addition, I've never, ever heard anyone mention adding Stunting rules that further limits what is allowed at each level. Never.

On behalf of Varsity, we have started capping skills - but not capping the difficulty level of the skills, only capping how many skills will count towards your difficulty score. This was done in response to the coach's complaint that Event Producers were making it too difficult on these athletes. The truth is EP's aren't demanding more out of team's. Rather, teams are trying to outdo their biggest competitiion by one-upping them. So if one team performs a 6 8ct pyramid, another team assumes that, in order to beat their rivals in Pyramids, their pyramid section needs to be 8 8cts long, when nowhere in the rubric did we call for that.

What Varisty is proposing is: If the judges are only going to consider 3 elite transitions when developing your Stunts Difficulty score, then Coaches won't feel the need to add a 4th elite skill in hopes that it'll give them the edge over another team's score. The effect should be:
- make Coaches cease on the arms race of doing more than the competition just for the sake of doing more
- make routines safer as it's that 4th skill that is likely to be unsafe and create a chance of injury
- make your 3 elite skills that you choose more difficult and more safe
- give coaches extra 8 cts strategically to use on whatever portion of the routine deserve to featured or portion of the routine that needs additional focus

Justin, as always - Thank you for the response.

What do the extra skills count for if a team has more then three transitions? And are the Loadins and Dismounts Separate? Forgive me if these are redundant questions as I am not as familiar with the Varsity scoresheet.

 

[ASCheerMan]

It may count towards your Skill Creativity score and can be used for your Technique Score. But we don't break out Stunt Difficulty into Load Ins/Dismounts/etc. It's one comprehensive category titled 'Stunt Difficulty.'

 

[Rudags]

It may count towards your Skill Creativity score and can be used for your Technique Score. But we don't break out Stunt Difficulty into Load Ins/Dismounts/etc. It's one comprehensive category titled 'Stunt Difficulty.'

Thanks for clarifying. So a Ball Up 360 To Opposite Stretch, Tick Tock to Stretch, Pull Bow, Clean, Arabesque, Scorp Double Down would satisfy three transitions?

 

[ASCheerMan]

Thanks for clarifying. So a Ball Up 360 To Opposite Stretch, Tick Tock to Stretch, Pull Bow, Clean, Arabesque, Scorp Double Down would satisfy three transitions?

You just performed two skills listed on the list of Elite Building Skills. If your goal was to score in the HIGH subrange, you would need a maximum number of athletes (nearly 100%) involved in 3 Elite building skills. You need to do 1 more.

 

[Rudags]

You just performed two skills listed on the list of Elite Building Skills. If your goal was to score in the HIGH subrange, you would need a maximum number of athletes (nearly 100%) involved in 3 Elite building skills. You need to do 1 more.

Thanks. We are attending a few Varsity events this year. I may email you at some point for better clarification. Who knows, maybe I will end up Pro Varsity competitions by the end of the season? :jawdrop:

 

[cheerheart4life]

I love Varsity's new scoring. I love how you are told more of what you need to score top ranges and given details on what is elite, advanced, or basic.

 

[Underestimated]

Well after what I just read earlier today in an email I won't be suprised if they do take things out in stunting!!

 

[ASCheerMan]

Well after what I just read earlier today in an email I won't be suprised if they do take things out in stunting!!

What did they say in the email?