All-Star Universal Score Sheet Pros/cons

[luvhim381]

I'm against it. I definitely like the fact that each brand requires something different. Majority of the routines already look the same, not because the coaches or choreographers aren't creative, it's basically because of the scoring grids/score sheet. I feel like the more we push for the universal score sheet, the more we will continue to look more like compulsory gymnastics, instead of the flare that competitive cheerleading is known to have.

 

[yojaehs]

I'm against it. I definitely like the fact that each brand requires something different. Majority of the routines already look the same, not because the coaches or choreographers aren't creative, it's basically because of the scoring grids/score sheet. I feel like the more we push for the universal score sheet, the more we will continue to look more like compulsory gymnastics, instead of the flare that competitive cheerleading is known to have.

I disagree with that and I know that is a view point of many that are against the "Universal Score Sheet". Jamfest has the same score sheet, every routine I saw in Indy was different, same as NCA, Cheersport, UCA and Worlds. So "per event" those events have a "universal score sheet" and I haven't seen one routine that was even close to resembling another.

 

[newcheerdad]

I'm against it. I definitely like the fact that each brand requires something different. Majority of the routines already look the same, not because the coaches or choreographers aren't creative, it's basically because of the scoring grids/score sheet. I feel like the more we push for the universal score sheet, the more we will continue to look more like compulsory gymnastics, instead of the flare that competitive cheerleading is known to have.

Completely disagree. The notion that having several different scoresheets allows for more creativity doesn't make sense to me. It's not like most coaches dramatically change routines for each competition, from what I see it's just minor tweaks and nibbling around the edges.

Secondly, I think that compulsory gymnastics isn't the worst model for cheer. At least there's a consistent scoring rubric that doesn't change between competitions.

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[12stepCheermom]

I think I love you! This has been my complaint since I entered the cheer world. Can we get some consistent judging... and make sure all judges are trained adequately and know what they are talking about!

Last year our level 2 team got a safety deduction for doing a plain, good old barrel roll. This year we had the judges tell us that if a team has one layout that is worth the same as my team having 10/15 people having layouts. Everyone is afraid to put in anything innovative in their routines locally because the judges here give you deductions for it because they don't understand the rules.

We had judges not give our junior 4 credit for level four tumbling passes because the round off, hand, whip, hand tuck....didn't end in a layout.and since it ended in a tuck, those 8 passes were level THREE. and hence didn't score.....

Um....when did whips become legal in level three?

We finished fifth day one because of that..changed those to easier...three to a layout...passes day two....finished first (for day two) in a 50/50 split that meant third place.

Ridiculous.

 

[5-6-7-8]

We had judges not give our junior 4 credit for level four tumbling passes because the round off, hand, whip, hand tuck....didn't end in a layout.and since it ended in a tuck, those 8 passes were level THREE. and hence didn't score.....

Um....when did whips become legal in level three?

We finished fifth day one because of that..changed those to easier...three to a layout...passes day two....finished first (for day two) in a 50/50 split that meant third place.

Ridiculous.

There is absolutely no acceptable reason that any judge out there doesn't know what is legal in the level he/she is judging.

Hearing about something like that once is too many, and I have heard about these things too many times on here and out at competitions.

 

[Drkilluzionz]

A Universal Score Sheet in my opinion has one major con...

Every All Star gym has different philosophies, different needs and different scenarios that work for them. Some stand out for their cleanliness, some for their choreography and innovation, some for their stunting and some for their overall package.

With one score sheet all weighed the same there is nothing to tip the scales other than execution. Some love this but I play devils advocate and think...

What if you're gym XYZ who has half squad skill and you put out a damn good product as far as choreography and presentation are concerned. Does that mean you should always loose to gym ABC who has squad skill, but maybe isn't as cutting edge as you are?

Can you afford as a gym owner to go all season long on that same scoresheet being outdone but gym ABC?

I appreciate that JamBrands plays the number game, All Star Challenge has the purple sheet and Varsity in some instances does a pretty good job at an overall show. It helps cater to the growth of the industry and coming from my perspective I enjoy changing a routine here or there to break up some of the monotony in my kids' season.

 

[12stepCheermom]

There is absolutely no acceptable reason that any judge out there doesn't know what is legal in the level he/she is judging.

Hearing about something like that once is too many, and I have heard about these things too many times on here and out at competitions.

this particular EP has it in their "special" score sheet that all passes must end in "layout" for level 4....that was their justification. Apparently, we could've thrown an full through and landed in a layout and that would've been level 4 (that's what I take from this).....my entire kingdom for a standardized scoresheet. :banghead:

 

[12stepCheermom]

A Universal Score Sheet in my opinion has one major con...

Every All Star gym has different philosophies, different needs and different scenarios that work for them. Some stand out for their cleanliness, some for their choreography and innovation, some for their stunting and some for their overall package.

With one score sheet all weighed the same there is nothing to tip the scales other than execution. Some love this but I play devils advocate and think...

What if you're gym XYZ who has half squad skill and you put out a damn good product as far as choreography and presentation are concerned. Does that mean you should always loose to gym ABC who has squad skill, but maybe isn't as cutting edge as you are?

Can you afford as a gym owner to go all season long on that same scoresheet being outdone but gym ABC?

I appreciate that JamBrands plays the number game, All Star Challenge has the purple sheet and Varsity in some instances does a pretty good job at an overall show. It helps cater to the growth of the industry and coming from my perspective I enjoy changing a routine here or there to break up some of the monotony in my kids' season.

I think if we're looking to make this sport legitimate in anyone's eyes than it needs to be standard. What I take from this (in terms of another sport) is that some football teams have great running games, and other teams have great passers. Others have a different offense or defense that works particularly well against someone else's (or not depending how you look at it). How is it considered a competitive sport if there were different rules for football and you only scheduled games that catered to your strengths? Team A only plays Team B because they can beat them in the air but avoids playing Team C all season because team C has a fabulous pass rush and you'll never get past them.

When you "win" that way, how can you say you won anything when you picked and chose "who" to play based on the rules of the game? Maybe in one game a running touchdown gets 4 points but a pass touchdown gets 6...so you only put games on your schedule for the 4 point TD because you have a shamazing running back who can carry you in the red zone 24/7.

I think it should be standard for everyone everywhere. If you're weak in an area...that's what you work on. A team with NO running game looks to build that because if you rely on the pass all the time you'll get picked because you don't have a balanced offense. If you don't have good jumps - that's what you work on. If you don't have good tumbling, hire a tumbling coach and bring your gym up to the level of that one that you've got in the crosshairs.

If you don't have acceptable stunts in that score sheet, you work on those. If it's a combination of those things (like some of the SCARY lv 5's we watched this weekend...like the guy with the whip, full, double who "landed" his double INTO THE CROWD and off the stage....SCARY! or the base on the same team that literally got almost got knocked out from a bad stunt) maybe you don't compete at the level you're not ready for until those skills are ready. If the USASF wants to focus on safety.....there you go. If people aren't competitive at that level, maybe they'll drop to the level where they ARE competitive until they grow those skills acceptably.

 

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

I am 100% for a Universal Score Sheet. We competed at Indy, NCA, Cheersport and UCA and let me say it was dang near impossible to give the kids a chance to relax because we were constantly adding a flip here, taking a flip out there, adding a jump for this one, taking away a jump and adding a clap. It's just annoying. And we went to em all and would continue if we didn't have to constantly change. I see us removing one of the big comps bc we have to change too much.

I had this thought as well, not so much on score sheet, but we discussed the fact that there are too many comps and warm ups are still not up to par so let me throw this out there and here your thoughts.

Ok, we all agree that there are too many comps, WHAT IF ALL comps were required to have the same warm ups as Worlds? I say this bc events often times short change the warm up area to save money. My theory is, if ALL events were required to do this then there would be less events but HIGHER quality events. Yeah I know EP's won't be in favor and this would be darn near impossible to pass but to me it just makes sense. This past weekend we went to a Varsity event, then tumbling strip was too short (end of strip was flat against the wall) and had to continually be put back together. Yes, this means less comps, but EP's wouldn't host events unless they had a certain number of teams (increasing competition). Just an idea, ready to hear your thoughts!

Don't get me started about the warm ups from the event last weekend. Scoresheets and Warm ups need to be standardized for the safety of our athletes.

 

[JulieP]

Agree. From a judges standpoint, I think that we work all year on a single scoresheet and become used to the scoring system for which we judge for. To have the variety of judges that score all on different types of sheets throughout the year, come together and score a new sheet for the first time at a worlds event.... its a little iffy....

I favor the Varsity score system (computerized)

My experience with this scoresheet and one other (Xtreme Spirit) is that it's a bit too subjective when it comes to difficulty scores. I appreciate that Jam Brands plays the numbers game and rewards teams, even small teams, on their difficulty and quantities in a truly objective way.