All-Star Usasf Changes Program Definitions/classifications

[Ashley]

I am missing the D2 summit connection? What changed there?

All locations of a gym are considered the same program now, regardless of Tax Id status. So there's no way for a satellite location to be D2 now.

 

[BBinNCsMom]

Does anyone know if XS levels 1-5R are summit divisions as well?

 

[quitthedrama]

I do see both sides, I really do.

However, I have to say that XS isn't dumbing it down in the sense the kids can perform substandard level 5 skills. It really is a D2 scenario in the sense that some gyms just have a much smaller talent pool to draw from. Say a gym can field an awesome team of 10 girls with doubles, standing fulls, killer stunting…that team could compete small sure, but honestly they do so at a disadvantage. So they either add some level 4 kids to get closer to 20, or those kids leave for a program with larger numbers. Unless the score sheet can some how even the numbers playing field, I think XS serves a definite purpose.

If Cali NYC really wants to exist, couldn't they exist as "NYC Allstars?" That was why I asked earlier how the definition works. If Cali really wanted to own a gym in NYC that competed D2, could it as long as it wasn't called Cali-NYC?

Technically, with the ratio rules, a team of 10 with those group skills would be extremely competitive in small senior, so there should be no need for an XS based on this assumption.

 

[MomMomMamaMom]

All locations of a gym are considered the same program now, regardless of Tax Id status. So there's no way for a satellite location to be D2 now.

Oh I get that, sorry I somehow thought you were saying that you couldn't do D2 and another worlds division... no clue where I got that from?

So the basic idea is that larger programs, who wish to expand feel that "small program" classifications should include their smaller programs in general. Makes much more sense then the idea that somehow having a "lesser division" at worlds is punitive to them.

 

[5-6-7-8]

Technically, with the ratio rules, a team of 10 with those group skills would be extremely competitive in small senior, so there should be no need for an XS based on this assumption.

Gotcha. :). Does that also work with pyramid scores / overall impression scores?

 

[BlueCat]

If Cali NYC really wants to exist, couldn't they exist as "NYC Allstars?" That was why I asked earlier how the definition works. If Cali really wanted to own a gym in NYC that competed D2, could it as long as it wasn't called Cali-NYC?

I feel certain that the spirit of the rule would prohibit this. I am also certain that there are "loopholes" or technical ways around it.

 

[Keep_Believing]

Would the mega gyms ever work together to form their on Varsity/USASF if they felt their growth was being too limited? What prestigious competition besides Majors has zero Varsity/USASF affiliations ? (If Majors does I am not aware of it LOL)

 

[5-6-7-8]

I feel certain that the spirit of the rule would prohibit this. I am also certain that there are "loopholes" or technical ways around it.

That was what I assumed and why I was asking for clarification. :). I couldn't tell from the release what the nitty gritty rules were and I assumed pretty much if there's a will there's a way.

 

[BlueCat]

Would the mega gyms ever work together to form their on Varsity/USASF if they felt their growth was being too limited? What prestigious competition besides Majors has zero Varsity/USASF affiliations ? (If Majors does I am not aware of it LOL)

"Prestigious" competition get that way in large part because of the teams that compete there.

I can't necessarily speak for all of them, but going into the event (or governing body) business full time isn't our desire and certainly wouldn't be our first choice. We generally want to work within the system to improve things. However, we do feel we have the resources to do those things if it came down to it.

 

[MissCongeniality]

Would the mega gyms ever work together to form their on Varsity/USASF if they felt their growth was being too limited? What prestigious competition besides Majors has zero Varsity/USASF affiliations ? (If Majors does I am not aware of it LOL)

I kind of see Varsity/USASF in a similar light as the telephone industry years ago... The fact that the big guy owned all the infrastructure (the poles, the lines etc.) made it virtually impossible for the smaller guys to step in and compete on the same level.

That said... if the megas really banded together and stuck with it ... it could possibly work. Sadly I think the powers that be know how to dangle goodies that tend to break up the full team effort that would be required.

 

[CLynn]

Though I don't see that athlete sharing is the only advantage to branding, I guess I can see how not being able to build a program in a new market could be impacted.

Oh I don't see that as the only advantage to branding at all either, that to me though would be a legitimate reason to not allow them to participate in xs.

 

[Keep_Believing]

I kind of see Varsity/USASF in a similar light as the telephone industry years ago... The fact that the big guy owned all the infrastructure (the poles, the lines etc.) made it virtually impossible for the smaller guys to step in and compete on the same level.

That said... if the megas really banded together and stuck with it ... it could possibly work. Sadly I think the powers that be know how to dangle goodies that tend to break up the full team effort that would be required.

Yes, the only way I could see it happening is if the majority of the Mega gyms were ahead of it. Hypothetically, they could form a board, make their own set of rules such as age grid, etc. If enough left together such as CA, CA, World Cup, Top Gun, Stingrays, Rockstar, SOT, etc. customers would follow.

 

[MomMomMamaMom]

So if tomorrow the FIG announces for the 2020 Olympics, they're adding a new artistic gymnastics event (for example: where you throw only one pass across the floor as difficult as you can), but you can only compete in this event if there are no other Women's/Men's/Artistic gymnastic competitors from your country competing at the 2020 Olympic Games. Winner of this event gets to stand on the same podium, get the same medal, and all of the perks that come along with being an Olympic champion. You're not bothered by that? At the Olympic Games, where the winner is hypothetically the most elite athlete who is the greatest in the world? But their governing organization essentially blocked the most elite athletes in the world from competing against you? Maybe you are the greatest at this new event, but you'll never really know because you didn't compete on a level playing field.

That's my issue.

This scenario doesn't directly correlate for me, ( less skills and less requirements aren't at stake here) but I suspect that's part of your point. Are you saying that it opens the door to make random limitations to championships? I guess I can see that... but cheer already has so many divisions that I feel like that waters down the impact of this concern. Though I can also see how you're saying that limiting who you must compete with is what you take issue with. I get that people don't like that, on principle. However, in practice, I struggle to see it as being a whole lot different than the fact that large teams have significantly fewer competitors than small teams, etc... and large programs have the opportunity to choose their divisions, while small programs really don't.

As for the benefits of the win, I really don't get that. Isn't the actual benefit for a program of the win a chance to increase business, and/or reputation which helps build business? For XS to get the benefit of building themselves out of their division shouldn't have any negative impact on other divisions? Or am I overlooking something?

Good questions about international divisions. I'm curious as to why they were excluded?

 

[icequeen]

Yes, the only way I could see it happening is if the majority of the Mega gyms were ahead of it. Hypothetically, they could form a board, make their own set of rules such as age grid, etc. If enough left together such as CA, CA, World Cup, Top Gun, Sting Rays, Rockstar, SOT, etc. customers would follow.

Top Gun, World Cup, and someone else I can't remember actually did something similar in 2004. They boycotted all bids competitions and worlds.

 

[Keep_Believing]

Top Gun, World Cup, and someone else I can't remember actually did something similar in 2004. They boycotted all bids competitions and worlds.

For that to be truly successful would need the majority of Worlds teams (with top medal counts) and create their own Worlds competition.