All-Star Use Of Alternates At Your Gym?

[Cheer Dad]

Exactly. In that scenario I was thinking along the lines of having a small team of 24, and one stunt group maybe doesn't "play." I know for this sport this is "crazy talk;" I was just making the point that it really isn't that crazy since the idea of "benchwarming" is understood in other sports.

As to having backups, I guess thinking about it more, it is hard to know what spot would need to be filled ahead of time. Even if a backup flyer, backspot, main base and side base practiced occasionally with a team, when an injury or something happens, those may not be the "right" backups.

Small gyms may not have this option due to limited numbers. Keeping 4 kids in the wings for 1 team may prevent the program from having enough kids for a different team which could hurt the program overall. Plus, in my experience a kid that only practices and never gets to participate in 'the game' will never develop and perform as well as someone that does. Practicing in a controlled environment is never the same as competing in front of a live audience or judge panel. It helps but is not the cure all. IMO, those alternates need to be on a different team and competing while preparing to be an alternate. I come from a hockey back ground and it absolutely kills me when a coach has 4 lines of players available but only plays 2 lines consistently and when on the rare occasion the 3rd or 4th line gets in the coach goes ballistic if they make a mistake. Those coaches don't realize they are the ones that created this problem, not the kids. Those kids will never develop as game players if they don't get to play in the game.

Large programs with an abundance of kids may be able to pull off something like this but I still feel it is in the benefit of the cheerleader to be on a different competing team to stay sharp. Large programs may also have the benefit of randomly replacing kids for performance issues which again is not real feasible for small programs.

Being the 'right' alternate when one is needed was one of my thoughts / concerns for this as well.

 

[Cheer Dad]

I'm surprised to hear that some gyms don't have alternates - I thought this was a given especially on Worlds teams.

Worlds teams are a whole different beast since from memory they do not even need to be part of your program and often may not be decided upon until late in the season.

 

[Whit_Marieee]

We actually have alternates on several of our teams but the majority of them have a primary team that they are on that some might deem below their skill level but based on whats best for our teams they belong on.

Example: We have a Senior 2 and a Coed 4 at our gym this year. A handful of level 3 athletes tried out and were given the opportunity to try and hang in with the level 4 team and see if any outside factors (stunting, leadership, showmanship, etc) earned them a spot on the level 4. At the end of the tryout process the level 3 athletes that did not make Coed 4 were given the following options:

Have a definite spot on the level 2 and be an alternate on 4
Just be an alternate on the level 4 and continue training and working skills
Not cheer

This seems like a more ethical plan.

 

[cheernerd5678]

I feel like as an athlete, I wouldn't want to be ONLY an alternate. I would have to be competing on a team already so that I knew I would be getting to compete. Not knowing would be too stressful. I don't think it's the same as other sports just b/c a benchwarmer already knows how to play. An alternate needs to know where they are in the routine, they need to figure out stunts and make sure they hit, etc. While they may be practicing "with" the team beforehand, they aren't learning anything that's 100% for sure, and practicing with a permanent spot is going to be different. Yes, they should know the routine, but everybody's part in the routine is different, so they have to know who they're replacing... so it's more stressful for them than someone who's on a basketball team but doesn't get to play.
My way of handling alternates would be: During the tryout process, you asked who would be willing to be an alternate (sort of like asking about crossovers), and still placed them on a team, but had them as an alternate on another team (multiple alternates per team, for each stunt position). Then they could come to, say, choreography for both teams and then only have to come to 2 practices a month for the team they're an alternate on (or whatever you work out). That way you have someone who knows the routine in case someone is injured/doesn't show up, they'll already be at the competition in case it's last minute, and you have multiple alternates for if a flyer gets hurt vs a base getting hurt vs a back getting hurt

 

[CheerBank]

Was your friend's CP told from the start that she was an alternate or was the decision made later on? Does she double team to another team so she does compete at competitions? My CP was an alternate (and ended up competing the entire season) but she was also on another "primary team" (lower level).

Alternate from the start. She knew that there would be a chance she might not compete but was willing to take that chance. But she's a beast base and had faith in her abilities and that she would be used at some point.

 

[bestbackspot]

I know this is all star but on my high school team we are currently having alternate decision making. We had an alternate who knew she was only competing if somebody got hurt, well somebody did. A main base got hurt. Said alternate is usually a flyer and can base too, so she was chereographed into the routine. Well injured girl is coming back, and we can only put 20 on the floor without switching divisions. Here's the problem, said alternate is hitting one of the stunts that a girl who made the team initially isn't, and I mean isn't at all. Hate to be my coach right now.

 

[cheernerd5678]

I know this is all star but on my high school team we are currently having alternate decision making. We had an alternate who knew she was only competing if somebody got hurt, well somebody did. A main base got hurt. Said alternate is usually a flyer and can base too, so she was chereographed into the routine. Well injured girl is coming back, and we can only put 20 on the floor without switching divisions. Here's the problem, said alternate is hitting one of the stunts that a girl who made the team initially isn't, and I mean isn't at all. Hate to be my coach right now.

We had that issue too, but not as big of a deal since it was comp. One of our captains couldn't seem to get her stunt to hit, and the alternate had stepped in for her a while ago when she was injured and the alternate could make the stunt it (as a base) but the coach didn't want to take out the captain... it was just for a game performance but still. IMO, hitting a routine > seniority/politics.

 

[bestbackspot]

We had that issue too, but not as big of a deal since it was comp. One of our captains couldn't seem to get her stunt to hit, and the alternate had stepped in for her a while ago when she was injured and the alternate could make the stunt it (as a base) but the coach didn't want to take out the captain... it was just for a game performance but still. IMO, hitting a routine > seniority/politics.

Yeah I gotcha and I totally agree. It just sucks because we already paid for Nationals, and somebody isn't going to compete there, just have to watch. Has anybody else ever had problems with having to change divisions due to alternates?

 

[cheernerd5678]

Yeah I gotcha and I totally agree. It just sucks because we already paid for Nationals, and somebody isn't going to compete there, just have to watch. Has anybody else ever had problems with having to change divisions due to alternates?

oops in my original i meant to say "not as big of a deal since it was *before* comp" haha and I know we haven't, but then again we've only competed at nationals once and we only get to go every other year.

 

[Ems]

Right?

Now just to play devils advocate and to spur discussion...why don't we (this sport) use alternates?

Other sports have "benchwarmers" so I don't necessarily buy the fact that kids can't handle the pressure. Plenty of parents pay plenty of money for their child to be a bench warmer / practice team player.

Even if a gym doesn't use true alternates, I do wonder why each team doesn't have a few designated backups who practice occasionally with a team in addition to a main team.

Personally, I think because with all stars, you're paying a monthly fee, uniform costs, etc. to be there. If I had a kid and was paying all that money and my kid wasn't on that mat competing every weekend, I would not be a happy camper. I would pull my kid and go somewhere else.
This concept really only exists in all stars. In college cheer, teams will often pick more athletes than the max for competing. So you may have 25 athletes but only 20 "make the mat" and the others are alternates. But in college you're not paying to be on the team.
I've also seen with some high school teams that you can make the game-day squad, but you can't compete unless you have the requires skills, such as a back hand spring. But once again, you're not paying to be there.

 

[CricketCheerMom]

Sames ^

Although this year, I did have one girl from another team go ahead and learn the routine for a new team we had with a bunch of new girls. I had a feeling we'd lose at least one with all those newbies. Sure enough, yesterday I had a mom call me to tell me they had to pull their daughter for personal family issues so I'll be utilizing that crossover now.

Great Instincts!

 

[CricketCheerMom]

I know this is all star but on my high school team we are currently having alternate decision making. We had an alternate who knew she was only competing if somebody got hurt, well somebody did. A main base got hurt. Said alternate is usually a flyer and can base too, so she was chereographed into the routine. Well injured girl is coming back, and we can only put 20 on the floor without switching divisions. Here's the problem, said alternate is hitting one of the stunts that a girl who made the team initially isn't, and I mean isn't at all. Hate to be my coach right now.

You need to do what is best for the team overall.