All-Star Where's The Loyalty?

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

The thing is, the judges/scoresheet doesn't care that Susie has a mental block or whatever the case may be. It's a numbers game. My loyalty will be to the team. My job is to make sure the team has the absolute best chance of performing their best routine that fits the scoresheet.

This.

Also, re: favoritism.

Let's say Suzy has the best lib tick tock and she's center flyer in that stunt.

If she ALSO just happens to have the BEST kick full, she is going to be my center basket.

That's not me "playing favorites."

That's me putting the best technique in the middle. Even if the same group is center twice.

I'm not going to intentionally put someone else in the center spot because I don't want to appear to "play favorites."

 

[Cheerhastakenovermylife]

This.

Also, re: favoritism.

Let's say Suzy has the best lib tick tock and she's center flyer in that stunt.

If she ALSO just happens to have the BEST kick full, she is going to be my center basket.

That's not me "playing favorites."

That's me putting the best technique in the middle. Even if the same group is center twice.

I'm not going to intentionally put someone else in the center spot because I don't want to appear to "play favorites."

From a parents perspective I would agree with this. If I wanted my child on a team just for fun I'd sign her up for a half year exhibition team. Not spend thousands of dollars on a travel competitive team.
I also don't think it's always about skills. There are some kids who just don't work hard. If you have a flyer who is light & flexible but doesn't fight to stay in the air. She shouldn't be in the air. Same with bases/back spots if you are not fighting to hold that flyer up you shouldn't be there. If you have beautiful jumps & tumbling but can't remember choreography or lack timing you are not as valuable of a team mate as you may be as an individual. These routines are constantly evolving some kids can't keep up with the changes & should be rotated to the back or in extreme cases off the team.

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[idrive]

This is a competitive sport, and an expensive one at that. If I am paying over $5K a year plus travel and I don't see my child learning, having fun and winning from time to time then I am out the door. We were at a crappy gym a few years ago where the kids played kickball at practice - KICKBALL! I'm all for having fun once in a while but when practice looks like rompa room, coaches are eating and on their phones during practice and your teams are consistently last place and not performing well then that is not the place for my CP. I can't believe parents are paying for that still. If my CP wanted to play kickball she would be in a kickball league.

This is basically why we left our first gym. Owner literally told me he didn't know what his coaches were doing!

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

This is a competitive sport, and an expensive one at that. If I am paying over $5K a year plus travel and I don't see my child learning, having fun and winning from time to time then I am out the door. We were at a crappy gym a few years ago where the kids played kickball at practice - KICKBALL! I'm all for having fun once in a while but when practice looks like rompa room, coaches are eating and on their phones during practice and your teams are consistently last place and not performing well then that is not the place for my CP. I can't believe parents are paying for that still. If my CP wanted to play kickball she would be in a kickball league.

All the nope!

Nope nope nope nope.

Anytime you walk into a gym, rec practice, whatever and there are kids doing whatever they want, with adults not paying attention, you need to RUN.

My personal favorite is having kids being coached by super young college kids or recently aged-out cheerleaders who spend 90% of practice TALKING TO EACH OTHER/TEXTING.

Sidenote: There is nothing wrong with being a young coach. There are some fabulous young coaches who are so amazing. There are some I see doing absolutely nothing who just want to be able to say they coach.

 

[idrive]

Being apart of a gym that has people leave to go a bigger program as well as people leave smaller programs for us because of reasons x, y, z my biggest thing with "loyalty" is if everyone leaves how is the high level program ever going to grow? What is the rush? Susie you're 10 years old with your double why don't you just chill and hang around this R5 or level 4 team and in two years when are you friends are a little more experience with stunting so you can go to worlds as a cohesive team and maybe do well. Obviously this isn't always the case but I have seen this a lot and at many other I would say "Medium" sized gyms.

Our coaches were discussing this same thing last week. They basically said they were growing tired of training the other gyms higher level athletes.

 

[idrive]

As long as the parents and kids know at the beginning of the season that replacing may happen for mental blocks that is not what I'm talking about.

For me it's more of:

You put together a team at the beginning of the season knowing very well what the skills of each athlete are. You place athlete A on a level 3 team that has level 3 skills, but lacks any specialties for tumbling. During national season an athlete walks in that has the same skills but also the specialties, you replace the athlete that was originally on the team just to place better at nationals and Summit. Athlete A is now placed on your level 2 team.

You decide mid-season to do tryouts for one of your teams that were never spoken of before. A new athlete walks in that week and replaces another athlete that has been with you for years. The skills are overall the exact same, but for jumps this athlete scores 1 point more than the athlete that has been with you for years.


If coaches/gym owners replace athletes out of the blue in the middle of the season just for their advantage, why should I not be able to leave mid-season just for my advantage?

Our gym does what is called "team shifts" twice a year. There are kids that will work to get the skills necessary to make a particular team and when/if that happens they relax and don't maintain those skills. Then there are others who work throughout the year and progress well. Some kids can be bumped down a level and some can be bumped up a level. The parents and kids are all told this at the beginning of each year. So far it has been well received and when it has happened it has helped both the team and the individual athlete. Obviously there are some that don't agree with the coached decision.

 

[Michael White]

All the nope!

Nope nope nope nope.

Anytime you walk into a gym, rec practice, whatever and there are kids doing whatever they want, with adults not paying attention, you need to RUN.

My personal favorite is having kids being coached by super young college kids or recently aged-out cheerleaders who spend 90% of practice TALKING TO EACH OTHER/TEXTING.

Sidenote: There is nothing wrong with being a young coach. There are some fabulous young coaches who are so amazing. There are some I see doing absolutely nothing who just want to be able to say they coach.

I coach, and occasionally when another team is at competition, and our seven swingers are missing, we'll play a game at the end of practice for five minutes. Does that really make me a bad coach?

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

I coach, and occasionally when another team is at competition, and our seven swingers are missing, we'll play a game at the end of practice for five minutes. Does that really make me a bad coach?

Of course not!

I get that you can't be 100% in serious mode all the time.

I'm talking consistent lack of structure. Like, every time you happen to drop in on your kid's practice (using younger kids as the example), he/she is:

*playing tag.
*kickball.
*just running around randomly playing on the tumble track or other equipment.

While the adults are:

*texting.
*talking.
*just generally unaware of what is going on.

Walking into those types of environments, you very quickly pick up on what is just playing a game at the end of practice v. kids really are in here doing whatever they want.

 

[Michael White]

Of course not!

I get that you can't be 100% in serious mode all the time.

I'm talking consistent lack of structure. Like, every time you happen to drop in on your kid's practice (using younger kids as the example), he/she is:

*playing tag.
*kickball.
*just running around randomly playing on the tumble track or other equipment.

While the adults are:

*texting.
*talking.
*just generally unaware of what is going on.

Walking into those types of environments, you very quickly pick up on what is just playing a game at the end of practice v. kids really are in here doing whatever they want.

Does this actually happen!? :eek:

 

[Michael White]

Of course not!

I get that you can't be 100% in serious mode all the time.

I'm talking consistent lack of structure. Like, every time you happen to drop in on your kid's practice (using younger kids as the example), he/she is:

*playing tag.
*kickball.
*just running around randomly playing on the tumble track or other equipment.

While the adults are:

*texting.
*talking.
*just generally unaware of what is going on.

Walking into those types of environments, you very quickly pick up on what is just playing a game at the end of practice v. kids really are in here doing whatever they want.

And I guess I just got triggered because I am a young college graduate who is aged out, but I'm never on my phone during practice or anything like that, and my practices are very structured. :P

 

[SL&AM]

What about kids that just don't have the appropriate level tumbling? I hear so often parents say they're child is a level 3 athlete because of their tumbling. However same child isn't in stunts cause they are not reliable in any of the positions. Why is so much weight put on tumbling? Yet stunts which seem to account for more points are viewed like anyone can do them? Which is definitely not the case.

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Ask your fellow gym parents how much each skill from a BHS on up cost them and then you'll likely have your answer. It's not called the $1000 BHS for nothing.

 

[Megs]

Maybe it's a good thing if "loyalty" in cheer is fading... I've heard a lot of "you can't leave mid season, you'll be branded a gym hopper", "cheer coaches all talk, you won't be welcome anywhere", "you gotta finish the season"... etc. I always thought that was a bit too much, I mean these kids are cheerleaders, not slaves or prisoners!

Cheerleaders know that they are getting into a season-long commitment when they try out and make their team. They know how long the season is, and they know what they are getting themselves into. So, I don't think its harsh or over-the-top for coaches and fellow athletes to get upset for a cheerleader leaving mid-season. You should stick through your commitment until the end. There are always exceptions of course (a lot have already been mentioned). However; I don't think it is over-the-top to expect athletes to stick through with their commitments.

 

[Cheerhastakenovermylife]

Ask your fellow gym parents how much each skill from a BHS on up cost them and then you'll likely have your answer. It's not called the $1000 BHS for nothing.

Maybe that's why it seems so weird to me. Up until recently there wasn't an Allstar gym within 2 hrs of where we live. No one does cheer. There is a popular cheer rec program but it is not the same high caliber as Allstar. Most with tumbling higher than a tuck all obtained their skills since the opening of the gym 1.5 yrs ago most don't even take privates cause there's no level 5 team. Even if somehow they were able to scrape together a level 5 team they'd never have enough experience to execute a level 5 pyramid.

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[SL&AM]

Maybe that's why it seems so weird to me. Up until recently there wasn't an Allstar gym within 2 hrs of where we live. No one does cheer. There is a popular cheer rec program but it is not the same high caliber as Allstar. Most with tumbling higher than a tuck all obtained their skills since the opening of the gym 1.5 yrs ago most don't even take privates cause there's no level 5 team. Even if somehow they were able to scrape together a level 5 team they'd never have enough experience to execute a level 5 pyramid.

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Sure they would, with practice. I'm not saying LVL 5 stunting can be learned in a week or two, what I'm saying is LVL 5 tumbling absolutely can not be learned as quickly as stunting. Boys tend to be the exception in this area; CEA has had a few good examples of that, but overall, it's likely tumbling that holds them back over stunting.

 

[SL&AM]

I coach, and occasionally when another team is at competition, and our seven swingers are missing, we'll play a game at the end of practice for five minutes. Does that really make me a bad coach?

Nah, I think that's normal. CP's gym gives a 5 minute free time at the end of most practices---not all, but a good chunk and the kids can do whatever they want. It lets them get their steam out before getting carted back home and to dinner/homework/bed...etc.