All-Star Where's The Loyalty?

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

If you have younger kids, your practices are structured, your team is doing well and it's only 5 minutes then I would say no. However as a parent of a higher level athlete from a mega gym if you can't work on stunts because cross overs are somewhere else then my kid better be tumbling, working on jumps or conditioning. And I don't think I'm some psycho cheer mom but I pay A LOT of money for my kid to be there. I can have play dates for free at my house.

This is how I feel about soccer.

I am not a crazy nutcase soccer mom and I know he's in Kindergarten.

They cannot be serious for an entire practice.

I know that.

But if I happen to stick around for practice, and I see kids playing tag, running wild, etc. for the whole hour while the adults have no plan, I have a problem.

Same reason. We can have a water fight at home with the neighbor kids for free.

 

[Beans100]

I do think that there is a certain grace period though after try outs. To me, leaving in June/July, even August (though that is beginning to push it) is not that bad. It's still breaking a contract and leaving your teammates, but summer is usually a time for working skills and getting comfortable with the team. If summer goes by and an athlete realizes that this is not right for them, it might be best that they leave before things start getting really busy. Leaving in the middle of competition season really, really, irks me though.

 

[dawgshow]

Does this actually happen!? :eek:

Yes.


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[Fiercecheermom]

This....

I heard comments on other threads of gym hoppers and so on... I've told my cp if anyone calls u that (she still goes to school with former rec team members) you have the right to reply "call me what you want but I have finished every season. I don't leave in the middle... I push through the best I can and when try outs come that's where I decide do I want to do one more year?"
Done lol

Perfect example:
On rec CP was a level 1 almost 2 tumbler but a level 3/4 flyer (in rec things are done a bit differently but I always tried to follow USASF). Left August after tryout when I resigned because of town politics and the shitshow it had become. Off to all star... Placed on a level 2 team. Did one season in a small gym. She did great on the performance end but behind the scenes she wasn't happy. Didn't feel she had true friends. Many times felt uncomfortable and in the end of season had maybe 2 true friends. She did tryouts in hopes that it would be different, different level etc.... She made 4.2 but even then for two weeks following tryouts in summer she didn't feel right, told me it feels weird like she's still the outsider. Drama starts occurring at the gym and within 3 weeks (1 of those is being away for vacay) 5 others left. One of those her BFF which was seeking level appropriate for her (and she got it). We return and cp tells me idk I'm not comfortable no one there talks to me they favor so and so (which I heard all past season). So we decide pulling out now would be better. It's June/July. So we start looking at other programs because I can also see my cp isn't going to grow with this program unfortunately. A program that has potential but needs to establish priorities. So after a few private tryouts and lots of discussions about finances and such we chose a program and even though she's back to level 2 I think it's better. She's working more on tumbling etc. and now in April we will have our discussion of what she wants to do next season.

So gym hopper or not. Every time the topic would come up mid season I always said ok well we need to finish what u started before deciding. We did the same with Dance and she danced for 5 years (at the same place but after last recital left because of cheer. Then went back to a different dance school placed on comp team and just couldn't handle both. And I support her 100%). I would say wait until after recital and we will discuss it.

Sorry long but just trying to make a point. Some gym hopping is good others are just a mess and a bit greedy


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IMO, you were perfectly within your rights to leave June/July. There is plenty of time for your past team to make adjustments in the 6 months prior to comp season. Lucky for you, you were able to see these things early enough and make the right decision for yourself. In another thread, the reason there is such discussion is because the athletes chose to leave at the end of January. There is a huge difference in what you describe above and leaving in the middle of comp season.

 

[Fiercecheermom]

if all star offered a true off season with a break, I think there'd be a lot less hurt feelings about "loyalty" and losing athletes.

If I am no longer feeling Gym A for whatever reason, when am I supposed to freely shop around for a better fit? I have to tryout at Gym B the weekend before I compete at the Summit for Gym A. It's crazy. We need a true, defined off-season.

Agreed! Luckily in this area, none of our AS gyms hold tryouts prior to Worlds. If in that case, I guess I would have brought CP in for a "private" tryout after she competed at Worlds. VERY few people knew we were leaving our last gym as we didn't even go to our current gym for a "visit" until after Worlds. We wanted to respect our previous program and team until the season was over.

 

[MzLyn23]

IMO, you were perfectly within your rights to leave June/July. There is plenty of time for your past team to make adjustments in the 6 months prior to comp season. Lucky for you, you were able to see these things early enough and make the right decision for yourself. In another thread, the reason there is such discussion is because the athletes chose to leave at the end of January. There is a huge difference in what you describe above and leaving in the middle of comp season.

Completely get it!! I hate hearing about mid seasons drops without there being a legit or reasonable reason that explains the need to leave. I mean not for nothing me and dh have had this discussion and hope not to offend anyone but me and him agree we think as broke as we are. If we are already invested 5k then cp is finishing the season unless there is a reason that is shows harm being done to my child etc.


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[FTSP]

My CP would have stayed at the first gym she was with but they stopped offering cheer. The second,and possibly last, gym really did some damage. Some girls left in December after a coaching switch and issues with the new coach. My CP was determined to stay but ended up breaking her ankle and how that was handled caused us to want to pull her off the team. I'm not sure she will do all star again but she is loving high school varsity and will continue with that until she graduates.


Excuses any typos [emoji23]
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[Rahcheermom!]

Loyalty is not a great word That cheer should be based on. It is a business, but respect, safety and happiness should be.
All kids should be happy in the the program they choose. They should feel challenged and learning new skills. Every athlete should feel safe in what they are asked to do while practicing/competing with their team. If these things are followed then respect for coaches, gym and team mates should be no problem then maybe loyalty can mean finishing the season(s) you committed to and signed up for?


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I agree as parents we should worry about our own child and do what's best for them and our family, BUT every parent should want their child to learn loyalty, and commitment. Individual skills are not the same as being on a team. If we solely looked at individual skills, then maybe we should be in gymnastics. Also, I wish there was a way to enforce no gym hopping mid season, this does affect the kids and the team!

 

[cheermomforever]

I agree as parents we should worry about our own child and do what's best for them and our family, BUT every parent should want their child to learn loyalty, and commitment. Individual skills are not the same as being on a team. If we solely looked at individual skills, then maybe we should be in gymnastics. Also, I wish there was a way to enforce no gym hopping mid season, this does affect the kids and the team!

As I said if the program is a good program then loyalty and commitment should be no problem. But every athlete should be progressing in their own skills safely and confidently along with of course learning new team skills too. I agree gym hopping due to owns individual advances is wrong!


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[Rahcheermom!]

As I said if the program is a good program then loyalty and commitment should be no problem. But every athlete should be progressing in their own skills safely and confidently along with of course learning new team skills too. I agree gym hopping due to owns individual advances is wrong!


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My experience is the gym hoppers are not leaving because they are far too advance for what the program can provide, but they feel as though their child is better or they don't understand the sport and how teams are put together and scoring and competitions so they leave, and most if not all of the ones I have seen leave either end up not progressing or out of Allstars all together. It's really sad, but it's not just cheer that experiences this. It's the world we live in and I wish there was a way to improve it for the athletes and the programs.

 

[jasoncheerdad]

My cp has had friends leave where she currently goes over the years because of various reasons. We have heard because parents are doing what is best for their kids, the kids just are advancing like they should, we are just not happy, etc.... Funny thing is, almost all of the kids who have left have remained on the same level they left our gym at. We are talking two years has passed and are still on the same level they were three years ago. I'm not a genius, but I don't see the growth. New gym promised wins. Unfortunately, this is too common that parents and athletes confuse winning with growth or advancement. I believe many are blinded by the promise of jackets or first place banners when if you stayed and grew year by year with the same girls they would more than likely be going to Worlds, or would have a lot better chance of going.

 

[Cheer Dad]

My cp has had friends leave where she currently goes over the years because of various reasons. We have heard because parents are doing what is best for their kids, the kids just are advancing like they should, we are just not happy, etc.... Funny thing is, almost all of the kids who have left have remained on the same level they left our gym at. We are talking two years has passed and are still on the same level they were three years ago. I'm not a genius, but I don't see the growth. New gym promised wins. Unfortunately, this is too common that parents and athletes confuse winning with growth or advancement. I believe many are blinded by the promise of jackets or first place banners when if you stayed and grew year by year with the same girls they would more than likely be going to Worlds, or would have a lot better chance of going.

But changing gyms is not always for trying to advance. Sometimes it truly is due to issues with the program or having something at a difference gym your current one doesn't offer. Cp changed gyms and level wise it was a lateral change. No increase in level promised, no promises of wins or otherwise. Gym B just had something gym A did not.


** I don't always cite facts but when I do I make them up**

 

[Rahcheermom!]

I agree that there will be good reasons for gym/program changes, but after 5 seasons I have not seen it in our area other than the ones that were switching to be able to compete on a worlds team their last eligible year. What I am seeing is parents getting upset because their kid isn't on the team they think they should be on, or their kid isn't a flyer, etc. so they move them thinking it will be different. We have a good program, and very experienced coaches, but our gym struggles because of this mentality. I see so many parents that don't understand the sport. They don't understand that you will not have a winning team with athletes that barely have the skills. They don't understand that teams are not based solely on tumbling skills, and they don't understand that the routines are judged on multiple things including execution, such as clean, sharp and in sync. We had a coach 2 seasons ago that told me that a strong level 3 team would be where they have mastered level 3 skills working on or have a few level 4 skills. They can throw the skills with confidence. I watch and realize from a parents point of view that when they are not confident and consistent in their skills they are stressed out and scared. This can lead to mental blocks, injuries, or just giving up. Who wants to set their child up for failure? My child has been on a level 3 team for 3 seasons now, but is throwing a full. She is not old enough to compete on a senior team and won't be for 4 more seasons. We don't have enough kids her age with strong level 4 or 5 skills right now and we may not ever. There is a gym 2 hours away that do have these teams and that's one of the gyms people hop to, we even had one quit our team just before our 2nd competition and is now on a team there. But I am delusional and loyal to our program. We started there and she has excelled there, and I would like to find a way to better educate parents on how the sport works and find a way to regulate gym hopping mid season. I think programs tend to get lax on rules and expectations because it is a business and they fear losing athletes because that losing income, but in the end what are the athletes learning about life and the real world? I'm over the participation award mentality, we have a world of kids that think they are entitled and we are seeing it everywhere. Gym hopping is yet another form of it.


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[Sparkle Mom]

I do get it is a business. I owned a business for many years and sold at the right time. It's been the reasons why some have left which really bothers me as a parent. Like I said above if you're leaving because you or your child thinks they are a level 5, 3 ,2 or whatever when they really aren't or you're upset because she's not the point flyer or last pass, then I have an issue. We're creating or letting this "me" mentality to build.

This idea that "everyone gets a trophy" really bothers me. It's as if we are allowing our kids to do what they want until they get what they want instead of just telling them they may just need to work a little harder.

I don't necessarily think that this is the same thing as team or gym loyalty. As a parent I find it hard to put a gym or an entire team first above my child's needs. For example a few of my friends are at gyms where the gym can't provide all level teams and not all of the athletes have level appropriate skills. They are by no means trophy chasers but they get tired of seeing the kids lose. Often kids outgrow small gyms that do not have coaches or teams that are comparable to larger programs. With the amount of money and time that we all put into allstar cheer I can't fault another parent for going somewhere else that they think will be a better fit for their child or family. Chasing a trophy doesn't always work out as expected but if that is what both the child and family really wants to do I am ok with it. It doesn't interest my cp but she has friends that have gone to chase that trophy. At what point is the individual more important than the team?

 

[Sparkle Mom]

I agree that there will be good reasons for gym/program changes, but after 5 seasons I have not seen it in our area other than the ones that were switching to be able to compete on a worlds team their last eligible year. What I am seeing is parents getting upset because their kid isn't on the team they think they should be on, or their kid isn't a flyer, etc. so they move them thinking it will be different. We have a good program, and very experienced coaches, but our gym struggles because of this mentality. I see so many parents that don't understand the sport. They don't understand that you will not have a winning team with athletes that barely have the skills. They don't understand that teams are not based solely on tumbling skills, and they don't understand that the routines are judged on multiple things including execution, such as clean, sharp and in sync. We had a coach 2 seasons ago that told me that a strong level 3 team would be where they have mastered level 3 skills working on or have a few level 4 skills. They can throw the skills with confidence. I watch and realize from a parents point of view that when they are not confident and consistent in their skills they are stressed out and scared. This can lead to mental blocks, injuries, or just giving up. Who wants to set their child up for failure? My child has been on a level 3 team for 3 seasons now, but is throwing a full. She is not old enough to compete on a senior team and won't be for 4 more seasons. We don't have enough kids her age with strong level 4 or 5 skills right now and we may not ever. There is a gym 2 hours away that do have these teams and that's one of the gyms people hop to, we even had one quit our team just before our 2nd competition and is now on a team there. But I am delusional and loyal to our program. We started there and she has excelled there, and I would like to find a way to better educate parents on how the sport works and find a way to regulate gym hopping mid season. I think programs tend to get lax on rules and expectations because it is a business and they fear losing athletes because that losing income, but in the end what are the athletes learning about life and the real world? I'm over the participation award mentality, we have a world of kids that think they are entitled and we are seeing it everywhere. Gym hopping is yet another form of it.


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I have never been in the situation where the only gym with a higher level is 2 hrs away but if my cp was on a level 3 team for multiple years and there was no level 4 team in her age range I would go to a different gym if my cp wanted to. I think this is a common reason why small gyms lose athletes to larger gyms. If your child is 9 and has to wait 3 years will she be content waiting to move up? If the answer is yes then by all means stay but my cp would not want to stay on level 3 for 6 years with level 4-5 skills.