All-Star Worlds 2017 Day 3 Updates

[cpersichilli]

Hi, The girl that got injured tried to tape her knee and work through the pain so we could go again but after collapsing on the warm up floor again we had no choice but to use one of our coaches from our gym that our owner very wisely added to our roster as an alternate without her knowledge lol. She just came to worlds to spectate and was waiting in the front for us to go when she got the call to go to warm ups and she was going on with us the second time. She doesn't know the routine and was in jean shorts and flip flops. The girl that got hurt based in the first pyramid, was the main base for the center stunt in the elite, was in the pyramid that included many different transitions, and based that basket ( I'm originally the back spot). After we realized the hurt girl was not going to be able to return to the floor we had about 6 minutes to re work the parts she was in. The alternate learned the prep in the first pyramid, we had a tumbler that has never done the elite stunt try it a few times, me and another boy did the first part of the pyramid as 2 people instead of 3, and I stepped in to base the basket so she could back spot. we pointed at her where to go and had to talk to her because we never had the opportunity to do a full mark through for everyone involved in a change to practice in a routine. She did great and we all tried to tell her where to go next but she totally forgot about baskets after the pyramid was done until she saw us dipping and she was too late to make it to us (plus she is clumsy and tipped over when she tried to get up). Under the circumstances I think she did a great job. I couldn't even imagine not knowing I was an alternate then getting that call and taking the worlds floor during finals, I can only imagine what was going on in her head!
We are very appreciative to all the support and love we got going out the second time. It was especially heart warming to see OO5 on the front of the floor for us, they are genuinely a class act. We are thankful that we got through that second routine safely and it was just a good feeling getting off the floor and for the most part not letting it show what happened in the back because its safe to say we were all freaking out and emotional before we went on again. It was an honor to compete against such amazing teams all season the talent in the division is unreal!

lol, this would have been me if i were in her position :p but you guys did amazing, congrats on gold!

 

[cpersichilli]

Midnight's been killing it in R5, can't wait to see what they bring to the division!

Do you know where i can find a video of them?

 

[wishfulthinking]

How many of the girls on ECE Bombshells were on J5 in 2013?

 

[luv2cheer92]

Do you know where i can find a video of them?

You can go to Varsity TV and look up a video of them from NCA.
I think this link might work.
The California All Stars Midnight [L5 Large Senior Restricted Coed Day 2 - 2017 NCA All-Star Nationals] | Varsity TV

 

[Official OWECheer]

Honestly the size of General's deduction didn't bother me nearly as much as the fact that it was referred to as a "performance error" instead of with a more specific term (i.e. "legality deduction" due to a would-be level 5 skill turning into what is regarded as level 6 due to stunts coming unbraced). A performance error could literally be anything, and I am very wary of vague wording or any term/practice that obfuscates the truth.

 

[luv2cheer92]

Honestly the size of General's deduction didn't bother me nearly as much as the fact that it was referred to as a "performance error" instead of with a more specific term (i.e. "legality deduction" due to a would-be level 5 skill turning into would is regarded as level 6 due to stunts coming unbraced). A performance error could literally be anything, and I am very wary of vague wording or any term/practice that obfuscates the truth.

It is a legality deduction. I've usually heard performance error refer to when something is given a warning, not a deduction. Something that is not intended to be illegal, but it ends up being that way due to a mistake (lost connection, timing issues, etc), versus something that was placed in the routine intentionally and is illegal. But I get what you're saying.

 

[BlueCat]

I understand everyone's viewpoints, I'm just surprised people seem okay with legal skills getting massive illegality deductions when they don't go perfectly. If it's a matter of safety, I saw far more dangerous stunting at Worlds than the inversion in Generals' stunt. Maybe a stunt that collapses to the ground should be considered illegal too lol.

FYI - A stunt that collapses to the ground gets the same deduction as an illegal skill (4 pts)

 

[BlueCat]

Honestly the size of General's deduction didn't bother me nearly as much as the fact that it was referred to as a "performance error" instead of with a more specific term (i.e. "legality deduction" due to a would-be level 5 skill turning into would is regarded as level 6 due to stunts coming unbraced). A performance error could literally be anything, and I am very wary of vague wording or any term/practice that obfuscates the truth.

I see your point, but "performance error" typically refers to a stunt that WOULD have been legal, except for an on-the-mat mistake. This separates it from something was done exactly as choreographed/coached, but is against the rules (back tuck basket in L5). Other mistakes in routines (athlete fall, stunt bobble, etc.) aren't typically referred to as "performance error" even though I guess they meet the direct meaning of those words.

It is worth noting that the mistake may not necessarily been committed by the second-layer flyer or even the girl being flipped. The bases could have lined up wrong, someone could have gone on the wrong count, bases could have thrown harder than usual, etc. (I still haven't seen the Generals or SSX stunts in question, so I am not specifically referring to them.)

 

[Official OWECheer]

I see your point, but "performance error" typically refers to a stunt that WOULD have been legal, except for an on-the-mat mistake. This separates it from something was done exactly as choreographed/coached, but is against the rules (back tuck basket in L5). Other mistakes in routines (athlete fall, stunt bobble, etc.) aren't typically referred to as "performance error" even though I guess they meet the direct meaning of those words.

It is worth noting that the mistake may not necessarily been committed by the second-layer flyer or even the girl being flipped. The bases could have lined up wrong, someone could have gone on the wrong count, bases could have thrown harder than usual, etc. (I still haven't seen the Generals or SSX stunts in question, so I am not specifically referring to them.)

I feel like there should be two types of legality deductions, then:

Type 1 Legality Deduction: an illegal skill is flat-out choreographed into a routine, and a deduction is issued.

Type 2 Legality Deduction: a would-be legal skill becomes illegal due to an execution error, and so a deduction is issued.

In tweets/posts, these could be abbeviated as LD1 and LD2.

If people were given brief but specific explanations like that, it would be great. The question from there would be whether to make those deductions equal in weight, or to make one cost more than the other.

 

[BlueCat]

I feel like there should be two types of legality deductions, then:

Type 1 Legality Deduction: an illegal skill is flat-out choreographed into a routine, and a deduction is issued.

Type 2 Legality Deduction: a would-be legal skill becomes illegal due to an execution error, and so a deduction is issued.

In tweets/posts, these could be abbeviated as LD1 and LD2.

If people were given brief but specific explanations like that, it would be great. The question from there would be whether to make those deductions equal in weight, or to make one cost more than the other.

I'm not sure those should be different. You are pushing the legality officials into some grey area with regards to intent, when ideally, they should just determine if something is within the rules or not. Most of the time it is evident what they intended to do, but not always.

I get the idea that you shouldn't punish kids severely for mistakes, but pretty much every deduction that happens in a competition is precisely that. Athletes don't mean to grab the foot wrong (or stick their hip out) to cause a stunt fall. They don't intend to under-rotate their double. Most of the time, it is an incredibly rare mistake for that person/group. When you have thousands of deductible events in every routine, you have do be phenomenally consistent AND more than a bit lucky to hit zero in a modern, world-class routine.

 

[tumbleyoda]

I feel like there should be two types of legality deductions, then:

Type 1 Legality Deduction: an illegal skill is flat-out choreographed into a routine, and a deduction is issued.

Type 2 Legality Deduction: a would-be legal skill becomes illegal due to an execution error, and so a deduction is issued.

In tweets/posts, these could be abbeviated as LD1 and LD2.

If people were given brief but specific explanations like that, it would be great. The question from there would be whether to make those deductions equal in weight, or to make one cost more than the other.

The issue I would see is similar to what I have seen over the years with the performance error deduction. Gym A gets the "lesser" deduction because of course they would know better. Gym B gets the "higher" deduction because they intentionally did the skill illegally because they did not know. Even if you read back thru old threads you can see where those same opinions have been on these boards over who should get the deduction over who should not. It boils it down to a popularity, marketing, $$$, who is well known, who is willing to scream the most type thing and ends up not being consistently applied.

That is why I am in favor of if you take it for one, you take it for all. If you don't take it for one, you can't take it for none. If you go back and adjust one, you adjust all. The rule should be the rule for all or else it is not a rule but a suggestion.

ETA I had an athlete do a skill in a power tumbling competition all year with two different organizations and was never called on it. At State she was called on it by one of the National Judges. Reread the rules and in a mid season addendum it was there. It sucked royally but it was the rule. We had not been called on anything for any of my athletes competing that division all year so we felt going into this meet they all were good to go. Matter of fact they were the only division I was not overly concerned about. Now I was 100 percent right in stating it should of been called earlier in the season because it was not like it was not an easy fix. Plus we had paid for the routine reviews to ensure all was legal. Which they 100 percent agreed with me and agreed to address it to the judging board - which they did. But the deduction still had to be taken. The athlete still qualified for Nationals so I did not fight it but so hard but she would of won that event (based on final scores) if that deduction was not called. It is the rule, so we had to deal with it.

 

[AndyT_T]

I guess this is what I get for saying nfinity should have gotten a penalty... what kind of person does this?

 

[luv2cheer92]

I guess this is what I get for saying nfinity should have gotten a penalty... what kind of person does this?

It's not loading for me

 

[AndyT_T]

It's not loading for me

Some cheer anon @ me and said that they had emailed my cheer team (I don't know if they mean where I coach or where I used to cheer) to tell them about my "attitude" and "sportsmanship" because I posted that video of Nfinity's basket...

I wonder if they did the same for the slow motion video of SSX and Generals :rolleyes:

 

[luv2cheer92]

Some cheer anon @ me and said that they had emailed my cheer team (I don't know if they mean where I coach or where I used to cheer) to tell them about my "attitude" and "sportsmanship" because I posted that video of Nfinity's basket...

I wonder if they did the same for the slow motion video of SSX and Generals :rolleyes:

Lol, that's crazy.