Young Tumbler Working On A Full

[cheer25mom]

Welcome to the board @HappyGirls

We really need to see a more recent video.
I see a ton of mechanical issues with every part of that tumbling pass. There is no way she went from that to very solid skills in 6 months.
She isn't loading properly in the RO. Look at her leg placement at the end of it. Every solid pass is built from a RO that needs to be fixed.
Her arms are bent, her legs are bent and her legs are apart in the BHS.
She is not setting in her tuck at all. It should be up and over not back and over.

"Perfection before progression" on lower level skills equals beautiful higher level skills with less of a chance of injury.

I just got somewhere I could access the video and ITA with all of this. There are DEFINITELY technique issues that need fixing. This would never have gotten to the tuck with CP's tumbling coach. She spent a year ironing out the issues you listed here before even starting tuck drills. If she is still tumbling like, or anything close I would be really concerned about the risk of long term injury.

I would add that her approach to the roundoff is off as well. She isn't reach out and stretching out the roundoff like she should. The bent arms in the handspring means she cannot be blocking effectively off the floor. The set for the tuck is probably most concerning to me. It is really easy to end up hitting your head when its whipped back like that rather than setting properly. CP. Is fighting that right now and hasn't been allowed to take her tuck off the tumble track because of it.

 

[quitthedrama]

Thank you all so much for the replies. You have definitely given me food for thought. I have been scouring PubMed for studies on the effect of early gymnastics training--I will post any studies of interest that I find. I will be following up with an orthopedic surgeon and talking with the tumbling coach about the game plan. So far "working on the full" has all been drills, so they are by no means turning her loose unspotted on a mat. They are very a professional gym and absolutely have my child's best interest at heart.

Why are you are going to follow up with an orthopedic surgeon and set up a game plan with a tumbling coach and start 2 threads about getting a full if you aren't in any rush for your child to get her full?
Take everyone's advice who has given it. Perfection before progression.

 

[HappyGirls]

Quitthedrama,
I asked for advice and received many good replies...my inital question was about how to manage expectations...not how to get a quick full... Some of the issues raised have me doing more research but while shared experiences are a great starting point, I'm not going to base decisions about my child on an internet forum..LOL!

 

[HappyGirls]

That last was not to discount anyone's opinion...it was a great starting point...but I still need to seek experts with known credentials who can assess my child directly. Thanks again for the input.

 

[THEJOEL]

That last was not to discount anyone's opinion...it was a great starting point...but I still need to seek experts with known credentials who can assess my child directly. Thanks again for the input.

Well it looks to me from that video that your people with "credentials" aren't doing their job. There is no way she should be doing BHS with a RO that looks like that. She shouldn't be doing tucks with a BHS that looks like that.
How are her FWO and BWO? Are they consistent with good technique?
There is a reason these skills are built upon one another.
I still don't understand why you need to go see an orthopedic doctor when there isn't an actual issue. That seems odd to me.

 

[Alexx]

That last was not to discount anyone's opinion...it was a great starting point...but I still need to seek experts with known credentials who can assess my child directly. Thanks again for the input.

The majority of people on this board know enough about tumbling to say that the skills your daughter has need to be worked on, starting with her front/back walkover if they are not perfect. If you want someone with credentials to tell you that, there are plenty on this board including @tumbleyoda.

 

[Cheer Dad]

@HappyGirls,
The best way to handle her expectations is to slow down and let her learn that sometimes the best things take time. As THEJOEL said Perfection before Progression. Everyone progresses at different rates and that is something every athlete and parent should know and learn. With your extensive athletic background I am positive you know this one but I'll admit sometimes if is hard to come to terms with.

As for the tumbling being thrown and comments from some very experienced parents and a couple of coaches I would question why the tumbling coach is letting her begin skills she isn't ready for.

Advancing skills to soon before the building block is truly engrained in the athlete can lead to injury and cause the athlete to regress in tumbling as they relearn proper technique from which to rebuild. CP who is a decent tumbler had to relearn a back handspring with proper technique to fix a full and double full tumbling to get rid of nagging back pain. That is not easy to do.




**Autographs for sale**

 

[rdavis4]

I know you said that video was old, and I am in no means an expert, but I just wanted to share my experience. We just finished our 2nd season of all star, cp is 7 and in first grade. She progressed fairly quickly although no crazy skills....just went from no idea how to do a cartwheel to do almost having her bhs without a spot in a little under a year. We had issues with her gym, so we switched to a bigger gym that is very well known and respected in the area. My cp....who almost had a bhs....was put into the very very basic level 1 class for a month. She didn't know how to do a backbend kickover or pull up. She is just now, after a year moving into beginner level 2 tumbling. We have spent an entire season learning basics that were not taught, and fixing incredibly bad form. Her coach won't let her move on because her round off isn't perfect enough, consistently enough. Perfection before progression. There is no way our gym (with every coach being USASF certified), would allow that tumbling pass. If we were still at our old gym, I'm 90% sure my daughter would have much higher skills....however they wouldn't be pretty, and most importantly, safe for her to throw. I was just thinking about how many times she would complain about wrist, back, and leg pain at her old gym. I would make sure your coaches are certified, and maybe even check out another gym during tumbling or a practice just to see if skills are being taught in a similar manner....it was incredibly eye opening for me when we went elsewhere. Had I stayed, I don't think I would ever know any better.

 

[lifeoftheparty]

I would say she needs to take a step back a truly perfect her skills including her RO and BHS. MY CP progressed rather quickly and got her full at 8 and jumps to tuck. Her layout was not even close to perfect and she was twisting right off the floor. I believe this was ONE (not the only) of the reasons she got a block. She had to step back and work on her technique. She didn't get any new skills from 8 years old to 10. It was so hard on her but she committed to learning correctly. Now at 11 she has specialty to double and standing full and two to double. I would hold her back and make her perfect her form before she even begins twisting. I wish I did.

 

[FlexyTumblerMom]

Per the video shown, she shouldn't be working on back tucks, let alone thinking about fulls. There is literally no shoulder blocking at all going on at all in that tumbling pass, she is just using her legs to "jump" over the handspring and the whip (yes - that's a whip, not a layout) - it's just very, very immature tumbling if I were to use a word to describe it. How these coaches have you thinking she is about ready to start working on her full is why cheer tumbling has such a bad reputation compared to gymnastics tumbling.

Honestly, if she doesn't go back to basics now at a young age and get good technique on her round off and backhandspring, it may be impossible to fix later cause those bad habits will be so engrained in her muscle memory and she'll never be able to do higher level skills. You don't want to ruin her tumbling forever just so she can say "I had my full at 6" - it's not worth it.

 

[HappyGirls]

Hi all, thanks again for all the posts that shared experiences and answered my specific questions--those were particularly helpful.

 

[Alexx]

Hi all, thanks again for all the posts that shared experiences and answered my specific questions--those were particularly helpful.

As I said, the video was an old one of one of her earliest ROBHS tucks--might even have been *the* first, I really don't know--and while I can say that there is definitely significantly more height and power, I am not qualified to know if she's ready to progress--but I do think it really isn't fair to judge a gym and the quality of instruction on the basis of an old video (which I removed to protect the innocent--LOL), since it's not current information, and even a newby like me . I will rely on those with training to know, and trust their judgment. I already had a lesson scheduled with a former Div 1 college gymnastics coach, and in light of some of the issues, I will ask some pointed questions about what is safe an appropriate for my daughter...so there will be multiple expert opinions to weigh. As for those questioning why I would choose to consult an orthopedist--here's a case in point: when I was 13, I developed really painful tendonitis in my shoulder (a common injury in competitive swimmers)..orthopedic doc took measurements and I had very lopsided muscle development...he then advised me that in practice I needed to alternate sides for breathing...after months of that and some rehab never had the problem again...so yes, I think it is very reasonable to seek expert medical advice as a preventive measure. Now I need to spend time with baby and hubby who is upset about the amount of time I have spent looking at my phone today. So forgive me, but it's time I unfollow.

The reason people are judging the video even though its old is that your daughter never should have been allowed to start back hand springs with that round off, let alone a tuck. Perfection before progression.

 

[cheermommaRN]

I noticed earlier you posted in Allstar but said you were posting in the parent area. You will find that this is very much an industry board with representation from pretty much every gym and ep. Everyone from the head of NCA to the owner of Cheer Athletics is here. So it's not just a parent board.
There is lots of information you can get but sometimes it's like drinking from a firehose.

 

[rdavis4]

I will also say....one of my first questions on here yielded similar responses. I don't post much, but I'm the type of person who wants to learn and know stuff....the people who have given you advice are all very respected on this board, and some of them are the same ones who gave me some of the same type of advice you're getting. I had to turn off the thoughts they were judging me, and I've learned from seeing posts that the people here who give this advice are the ones who have been involved in this a long time. They know far more than I do, and they are usually spot on in their advice and opinions. I really appreciate all of the advice I've been given here; it's opened my eyes to how important it is to do things right in this sport (and to what right and safe means!)

 

[THEJOEL]

Hi all, thanks again for all the posts that shared experiences and answered my specific questions--those were particularly helpful.

As I said, the video was an old one of one of her earliest ROBHS tucks--might even have been *the* first, I really don't know--and while I can say that there is definitely significantly more height and power, I am not qualified to know if she's ready to progress--but I do think it really isn't fair to judge a gym and the quality of instruction on the basis of an old video (which I removed to protect the innocent--LOL), since it's not current information. I will rely on those with training to know, and trust their judgment. I already had a lesson scheduled with a former Div 1 college gymnastics coach, and in light of some of the issues raised, I will ask some pointed questions about what is safe and appropriate for my daughter...so there will be multiple expert opinions to weigh. As for those questioning why I would choose to consult an orthopedist--here's a case in point: when I was 13, I developed really painful tendonitis in my shoulder (a common injury in competitive swimmers)..orthopedic doc took measurements and I had very lopsided muscle development...he then advised me that in practice I needed to alternate sides for breathing...after months of that and some rehab never had the problem again...so yes, I think it is very reasonable to seek expert medical advice as a preventive measure. Now I need to spend time with baby and hubby who is upset about the amount of time I have spent looking at my phone today. So forgive me, but it's time I unfollow.

The video had a date if 12-31-15
4 months ago....How is that old?