1st Year Cheer Dad Is This Normal?

[Littlebear12]

Can't seem to find the fun in competitive cheer


Is it normal to change the cheer routine every competition. Our team’s routine has been changed as with only 1 day to practice before a competition. My daughter is on a youth 2 team. This is our 1st year. The team took 1st place in the 1st and 2nd competitions but now they have taken 7th and 8th place in the last 2. The girls just don’t know what to do and it shows. The girls routine last Saturday put them in 7th place out of 10, their couch told them the judges didn’t like the routine so she is changing it and they would have a practice at the hotel, she added that she didn’t think they would improve. I told my daughter that she must have miss heard her couch, but other girls repeated what was said. Also is it normal to have 8-11year olds standing outside in freezing cold weather at 5:30am waiting to be let in to the venue so they can compete at 7am. My daughter was told they were not to wear the warm ups inside the venue and that if their parents were not there to collect their warm ups they would be left out side. I know it was cold outside that morning as there was frost on the cars. I saw girls shivering cold strip out of their warm ups outside, so it seems my daughter did not exaggerate what the coach told her. I did not let my daughter strip down outside. It was not very warm in the venue. I took her to the doctor yesterday, she is home today with strep and an ear infection, and a dislocated finger. Are 2 day competitions supposed to be fun? Getting up at 3:30am on a Sunday to do hair and makeup is not my idea of fun. Girls were told no swimming Saturday night. We spent a lot of money to travel and stay in expensive hotels to be in bed at 8:30pm in a town that is known for its weekend night life. My last question, are the girls hair and makeup being graded by the judges? The girls were told if they have any hair fly aways they would not compete. I feel a bit uncomfortable with heavy makeup on 5 year olds, my daughter is 10, it just feels a bit like a beauty pageant and less like an athletic competition.

If this is normal I am not sure this is something I want my daughter involved in.

Concerned Dad

 

[Beans100]

@Cheer Dad

He might be able to shed some light for you.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

*Early meet times are typical depending on the comp. You have no control over where your team is placed on a schedule or when they compete.

*Hair and make up is not scored but it can impact scoring (overall impression) in my eyes if everyone is not taking the effort to do it correctly. It's tricky with young kids as you don't want to nitpick, but you do want everyone to look uniform. Most people wouldn't refuse to let a kid compete with flyaways. I would just have them fix it or get with another parent to help them fix it.

*There are coaches who do not allow swimming the night before, due to potential for injuries.

*Fun is allowed, but depending on when your kid competes, there may not be time. It's not unusual for people to just go, compete, then need to come right back home so it is not always a vacation.

 

[FlexyTumblerMom]

At extremely strict gyms, a lot of what you are describing re: the hotel, report times, wardrobe, etc. is not that out of line unfortunately. I have heard of gyms w/ early curfew times and no swimming the day before in the hotel rules - these gyms usually force their members to stay at a specific hotel and dictate check in and check out days and times for each team - for ex. even if it's possible to drive up the day of the competition for Day 1, they will not allow you to and expect you there at the hotel prior to curfew or a certain report time the night before. They may also have rules that require you to stay at the competition till a certain time to support other teams from the gym. Basically they own your time that entire weekend and if you don't comply your kid could face consequences. I've heard some crazy rules about wardrobe and hair/make-up as well (although I do personally feel that strict uniformity when it comes to hair and makeup is very important and does make a team come across as more professional and polished on the mat).

I have known many people who left gyms like these for other gyms specifically because of these rules. However, usually gyms like these have very good teams and good training - which is why they are able to get away w/ making the strict rules in the first place. Yeah, you can leave, but when the alternatives don't have as good of training, etc., sometimes it's better to just put up w/ the craziness.

However, I will say the changing of the routines thing is very common for all gyms IMO - I don't think CP's routines have ever been exactly the same from comp to comp. Coaches move things around to try and maximize the score sheet all the time, so it's a very evolving process. In the long run, learning how to adapt to changes in a routine is more important than the placement in a youth aged competition (even if it is hard for little ones to adjust sometimes). It's an ability they will all NEED by the time they are Junior and Senior cheerleaders. Many level 5 teams will do a different routine on day 2 than they did on day 1 at major comps like NCA and Worlds based on adjustments needed per the day 1 score sheet, so all AS cheerleaders need to be able to do this. It's actually a good thing that your CP is being exposed to routine changes so early IMO.

 

[mamabear]

I think one of the things that you don't understand is that the competing itself is what is fun and addicting for the kids.
They love it. My cp would compete every weekend if she could.

The coach does sound a little harsh, but she is protecting her team by laying the rules out there. From the minute that they meet, it is truly 'game on". They don't want to the distractions of late arrivals or having to wait until the girls get in uniform and they certainly do not want to have to worry about the kid's belongings. You would be amazed at how many parents send their kids not ready at meetup and how much time is lost.

I admit that the no swimming thing sounds weird at first, that is until your cp has to rework a routine the day of a comp because her teammate was at the hospital the night before, because they fell at the pool. It has happened twice to programs that that I know of. I have also seen kids that got so sunburnt during the day that they could barely base or stunt during the routine. Be forewarned, you will also see night time curfews and no-Parks restrictions too. There is nothing worse than having a team mate stuck on a ride, when they should be at meetups or practice.

A competition is not a vacation.

The makeup thing is not so the kids look like they are going to concerts, but so they can be seen under the concert-like lighting on a stage that is 100 feet away from the judges and audience. A uniform appearance does affect the scores.

The switching around routines often happens. The coaches may be adding in a degree of difficulty or changing something that is not working. Sometimes it happens on the Saturday night due to the judges' feedback. Having a coach and team who is willing to work for it is great. What looks like a major change to us, is usually fairly easy for the kids. They are used to it. All good routines are constantly evolving.

I know that you must feel like you fell thru the rabbit hole, but I can guarantee you that it is fun for the kids. The hanging out with friends , the nervousness before, the rituals of getting ready for the performance, the celebrations of the mat, the travel...it all plays into what makes all star unique.

 

[catlady]

http://register.varsity.com/VAS/16-VAS-score-sheet.PDF

The above is a score sheet from Varsity, and "no", hair and make up is not scored. Each gym generally has a requirement on how they would like their athletes to look in their uniform. Early meet times are normal to insure all athletes are accounted for, and if not, a fill in can be selected, stunts/pyramid can be learned, or changes can be made. Changes in the routine are usually made based on judges comments, and it is normal for the routine to change throughout the season if the team isn't scoring high enough. Indoor hotel pools generally lack lifeguards and have very poor ventilation and air circulation. They are considered "super" chlorinated to fight high levels of urine, fecal material, fungi and bacteria and between the injury and bacterial risks, they are usually discouraged.

 

[DaniV]

I think one of the things that you don't understand is that the competing itself is what is fun and addicting for the kids.
They love it. My cp would compete every weekend if she could.

The coach does sound a little harsh, but she is protecting her team by laying the rules out there. From the minute that they meet, it is truly 'game on". They don't want to the distractions of late arrivals or having to wait until the girls get in uniform and they certainly do not want to have to worry about the kid's belongings. You would be amazed at how many parents send their kids not ready at meetup and how much time is lost.

I admit that the no swimming thing sounds weird at first, that is until your cp has to rework a routine the day of a comp because her teammate was at the hospital the night before, because they fell at the pool. It has happened twice to programs that that I know of. I have also seen kids that got so sunburnt during the day that they could barely base or stunt during the routine. Be forewarned, you will also see night time curfews and no-Parks restrictions too. There is nothing worse than having a team mate stuck on a ride, when they should be at meetups or practice.

A competition is not a vacation.

The makeup thing is not so the kids look like they are going to concerts, but so they can be seen under the concert-like lighting on a stage that is 100 feet away from the judges and audience. A uniform appearance does affect the scores.

The switching around routines often happens. The coaches may be adding in a degree of difficulty or changing something that is not working. Sometimes it happens on the Saturday night due to the judges' feedback. Having a coach and team who is willing to work for it is great. What looks like a major change to us, is usually fairly easy for the kids. They are used to it. All good routines are constantly evolving.

I know that you must feel like you fell thru the rabbit hole, but I can guarantee you that it is fun for the kids. The hanging out with friends , the nervousness before, the rituals of getting ready for the performance, the celebrations of the mat, the travel...it all plays into what makes all star unique.

Very well said! I was trying to figure out how to explain all of that in a way that it would make sense and focus on the positives of all the things mentioned but you did it perfectly!

@Littlebear12 In short, just remember that competitions are not vacations - every team is there to win. The competition itself is the fun aspect and everything else is in preparation for that. Instead of focusing on the negatives and the things you don't like (because your CP will feed off of that and it may effect her performance), focus on how well she did during certain parts of the routine or how great/fierce she looks with her competition attire on (look good, feel good!).

 

[Lisa Seye]

In addition (everything is covered so well already by other posters) swimming drains energy lol. The kids need rest to be at their peak performance levels

 

[Cheer Dad]

You are quickly learning the difference between a recreational activity and a competitive sport.

IMO the coach/owner is a bit over board on some of these things.

Everyone has really said it all but it does get fun once you either find a gym where you feel at home or when you find out how things are run so you can plan from there. It also gets easier as the kids get older and compete later in the day.

Reworking routines with small changes is very common to tweak the routine to the scoresheet, usually though it is done prior to the last practice before heading to the comp. At larger comps though it is not totally uncommon for teams to have practices in the hotel or at neighboring gyms. AS cheer really is a commitment. Been doing this for many years and wouldn't change it at all. I have met some fabulous people along the journey and will be sad when our time is over.

As for the curfew, that applies to the kids, not the adults. Go out and have fun if you can find someone to watch the kids or organize your own room party.




**will someone please explain what just happened?**

 

[mybabywantstotumble]

@Littlebear12 welcome to fierceboard!

you will find a lot of useful and not so useful information here. i joined when my daughter started cheer and have learned a lot. she is now 12, on season 5 at gym #2 so i have a little experience under me.

as other posters mentioned, routine changes are necessary and will happen all season long. it's a good thing - they are listening to the judges and their comments on the routine and adjusting to hit the score sheet. it sounds like when your team won 1st at the first few comps they may have been smaller local comps and when they went to larger comps with more competition the routine wasn't competitive.

early meet times suck, there is no way around it. as your daughter (CP as we call them) advances in her cheer career meet times should get later. one day you will look back and complain about competing at 8 or 9pm. Hair and makeup are part of the game, everyone should look uniform. each gym makes their own decision as to hair and makeup styles. my gym is into heavy makeup and big hair, other gyms are light makeup and straight hair. if the hair and makeup bother you that much you might want to look into other local gyms and what they do and switch next season. i can tell you though that i would not select a gym based on hair or makeup - it would be for gym environment & technique.

We are not allowed to swim at our gym. As other posters mentioned swimming tires out the athletes and the coaches want them rested and ready to compete. I would suggest tacking on an extra night or two in a city you are traveling too if you want to make it a mini vacation. Competition weekends are fun but are exhausting.

If you have any questions that you aren't comfortable with posting just PM any of us parents and we can help you out.

 

[Littlebear12]

My CP loves one man stunting and is doing level 6 stunts, she enjoys the tumbling as it is like her gymnastics training. I have to say she is enjoying the competitions. I grant the couch more authority over my child than I would give to a relative; in exchange I expect them to be a good role model. I would not want my child to emulate her couch. Without context the couches decisions come across as caprices and mean. The consent threats to kick them off the team or not let them compete for minor things is getting old. We are in a large gym that fields 5 teams so I am sure they neither need my daughter or my money. She is a good flyer but the gym has many more.

If as you all say this is normal than I will try my best to keep up appearances for the rest of the season. I know 3 other moms who have had it with this couch and one who is done. If they do not improve over the next 5 competitions, we will not be going to Orlando with the team in April.

My daughter is a good flyer, (very tiny, and fearless) and has been approached by other gyms, but it would be pointless to change gyms if this is normal.

I look back at why I got involved in this. My daughter is very small she is soon to be eleven and is average height and weight for a 6 year old she still wears size 6 cloths. I did this so she would have a place where her size and 5 years of gymnastics was a benefit. I want to help build her self-confidence. The drama with the coach, other girls, and parents is bringing out a cattiness in my daughter she previously never demonstrated. Could be she is just turning 11 L and has nothing to do with cheer.

As you all say this is normal, I can’t see going to the couch will improve anything and will most likely result in reprisals directed at my daughter.
I read http://usasf.net.ismmedia.com/ISM2/ParentsActionCommittee/Cheer_Parents_101.pdf
It was long on do and don’ts but short on benefits and fun.

If the situation doesn’t improve, I will be putting my daughter back in gymnastics after this season as this is not an activity that is in my daughter’s best interest.

 

[mamabear]

My CP loves one man stunting and is doing level 6 stunts, she enjoys the tumbling as it is like her gymnastics training. I have to say she is enjoying the competitions. I grant the couch more authority over my child than I would give to a relative; in exchange I expect them to be a good role model. I would not want my child to emulate her couch. Without context the couches decisions come across as caprices and mean. The consent threats to kick them off the team or not let them compete for minor things is getting old. We are in a large gym that fields 5 teams so I am sure they neither need my daughter or my money. She is a good flyer but the gym has many more.

If as you all say this is normal than I will try my best to keep up appearances for the rest of the season. I know 3 other moms who have had it with this couch and one who is done. If they do not improve over the next 5 competitions, we will not be going to Orlando with the team in April.

My daughter is a good flyer, (very tiny, and fearless) and has been approached by other gyms, but it would be pointless to change gyms if this is normal.

I look back at why I got involved in this. My daughter is very small she is soon to be eleven and is average height and weight for a 6 year old she still wears size 6 cloths. I did this so she would have a place where her size and 5 years of gymnastics was a benefit. I want to help build her self-confidence. The drama with the coach, other girls, and parents is bringing out a cattiness in my daughter she previously never demonstrated. Could be she is just turning 11 L and has nothing to do with cheer.

As you all say this is normal, I can’t see going to the couch will improve anything and will most likely result in reprisals directed at my daughter.
I read http://usasf.net.ismmedia.com/ISM2/ParentsActionCommittee/Cheer_Parents_101.pdf
It was long on do and don’ts but short on benefits and fun.

If the situation doesn’t improve, I will be putting my daughter back in gymnastics after this season as this is not an activity that is in my daughter’s best interest.

Wow. If you are ready to quit mid season before Florida, for the reasons you have cited...I think I would agree that all star might not be for you.

 

[amy1k]

Wait. She's eleven and doing level 6 stunts??? I'm not very informed about different stunt levels, but level 6 is for 17+....it seems very strange that a new, eleven year old cheerleader would be participating in stunting at that level. [emoji51]

 

[Keep_Believing]

Ignore

 

[Official OWECheer]

Wow. If you are ready to quit mid season before Florida, for the reasons you have cited...I think I would agree that all star might not be for you.

Yeah, I'm just now realizing that his kid is level 5. The level of dedication required from level 5 athletes and parents is immense. You can't just leave because you feel like things aren't going your way. It'll set a bad example for your daughter (ironic, because this is exactly what you are accusing others of doing, including the coach).